"Prayer is a first resort in Kenya. In America we pray when our strategy has failed."
Interview with Vallerian Mganga
Hosts:
Vallerian Mganga
Nathan Norman
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2026 CrossTalk Global
Nathan: What are some of the challenges of ministering in Kenya? How has Crosstalk Global's ministry impacted the believers in Kenya? And what can we learn from the strengths of the church in Kenya? Join us for an update from Crosstalk instructor Pastor Vallerian Mganga. Welcome to Crosstalk, a Christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible, but to take the next steps beyond information into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life into all of our lives. I'm Nathan Norman. We heard about the ministry in Kenya back in episodes 203 and 204. Today, let's explore ministry with Pastor Valerian Mganga. Vallerian, welcome to the show.
Vallerian: Thank you, Nathan. It's always great to be part of the show.
Nathan: Yes, and I deeply appreciate you helping me with your name. As, as an American, you know, we often struggle with pronunciation.
Vallerian: Yeah, that's fine. That's fine.
Nathan: And you're gracious, too. So remind listeners about yourself. Where do you currently live and what do you do?
Vallerian: Well, as you mentioned earlier, my name is Valerian Mganga. I am the lead pastor at Southside Bible Fellowship in Manchester, New Hampshire, but my family and I, that's my wife and our 3 children, reside in a small town called Pepperell in Massachusetts. I am originally from Kenya.
Nathan: Excellent. So our listeners can go back to episodes 203 and 204 to hear the whole story about how you got involved with Crosstalk, but How long have we been in Kenya now? How long has Crosstalk been ministering?
Vallerian: Since 2017.
Nathan: Okay, so it's about 9 years.
Vallerian: Yeah, yeah, been that long.
Nathan: It's been 9 years. So we're heading into third generation.
Vallerian: Yes.
Nathan: Already thinking about fourth generation.
Vallerian: Yeah.
Nathan: So we actually have a lot of time that we can look into the impact that Crosstalk has had. Amongst believers and the churches in Kenya. What have you seen? How has Crosstalk helped equip the churches in Kenya?
Vallerian: Well, Crosstalk has been instrumental in Kenya because the Kenyan church does not only need Bibles but preachers who can communicate the biblical message effectively and appropriately because the goal is for God's people to hear God's voice. And because of Crosstalk, trained pastors and other church leaders that have gone through the program are equipped not only to prepare but also to communicate biblical messages in their own language and culture. And this, what I have seen, is that it makes discipleship more effective. And that is a great blessing that we have seen with our students and we continue to see. It's one of the things that makes us want to go back there time and time again because there's a difference.
Nathan: So I have a question for you. I know sometimes when Crosstalk will go into certain areas, there's a little bit of resistance, not from everybody, but there's always kind of like that small group of people who say, oh, this is new or it's innovative. 'Or it's not the way we used to do things.' Have you seen that kind of resistance in the work that Crosstalk has done?
Vallerian: At first, yes. Because there have been many missionaries that would come with their trainings, and some of them would actually pay people to attend their seminars or conferences. And it will be like a 1 or 2 day thing. So people had a different view when they came to Crosstalk because they were expecting the same thing they have been getting from other trainings and other missionaries. But then when they realized that this was a serious thing and then they realized we were not there to give handouts, there was a resistance. You know, I remember our first cohort, we had some very good people. I would say most of them would have become very good apprentices and eventually instructors, but they came with different expectations. And when their, their expectations were not being met, they did not take the program seriously. So the few that did benefited, and then the ones that had ignored the program came back wanting to retake And I remember Kent telling them, "You had your chance and that's it." But from the ones that took it seriously and people saw the change that was taking place in their preaching, that became an open door. Many people wanted to— we've never had a problem having students since then. And even now we will probably have to control because now we have to spread out to other parts of Kenya. And even though we've been having students from other countries as well, so that resistance is gone now because they are realizing this is a serious program. It demands more of me than me expecting handouts, and it's even more important for my ministry. And so that is changing their expectations.
Nathan: Oh, wow. Now, that's encouraging to hear. What other countries are coming to the Mombasa cohort?
Vallerian: So we have students from Rwanda, Tanzania, and Uganda so far.
Nathan: Oh, excellent.
Vallerian: Oh, and one from Congo.
Nathan: Okay, that's phenomenal. Wonderful. I love to hear it. So do you have any stories of how Crosstalk Training has impacted maybe individuals, pastors, or individual churches?
Vallerian: Oh, Nathan, there are so many stories. Let me just share with you, uh, among the many stories, one that stands out concerns Pastor Joseph Kang. He's one of many preachers who always used to yell at his congregation. He was, according to him, he was trying to mimic televangelists.
Nathan: Okay.
Vallerian: And, uh He preached the health and wealth gospel every Sunday.
Nathan: Oh, wow.
Vallerian: According to Joseph, that's the message that was trending and people seemed to respond to it because of life's hardship. The health and wealth message offered hope, but it was a temporary hope. It really never helped people grow spiritually. It pressured them to focus on material blessings.
Nathan: Yeah.
Vallerian: I remember him saying it treated giving as a conditional requisite for blessings. And then in the end, many Christians were pressured to either pretend that God was blessing them or were frustrated by their lack of faith for not getting what they were promised.
Nathan: Oh!
Vallerian: When Joseph started the cross-talk training program, he struggled to submit his thoughts to the message of the Bible. It was hard for him to move from what he was seeing and what he was doing to what we were teaching him. But I remember he confessed that one day when he was preparing for his assignment, That's when the word of God hit him. Like, God's word spoke directly to him. The big idea impacted his own life, and that became his study.
Nathan: Wow.
Vallerian: Yeah. And after his graduation, he became one of our apprentices. And in his own words, even his congregation noticed a difference in his preaching. They could tell that His sermons were from the Bible and they felt God was speaking to them, and that changed everything. He is now one of our instructors and is very good actually at preaching the big idea in Swahili. So he— every time we want the students to see how a biblical message can be preached in Swahili is the one that we ask him to preach so they can see, and it's always a blessing.
Nathan: Oh, wow. That's encouraging because I have some compassion for people who maybe are preaching the health and wealth gospel or any other kind of errors that you find in Christianity because I know when I started preaching, I just kind of did what I know.
Vallerian: Yeah.
Nathan: You know, and, and what I'd heard. And, um, and, and even, even if you're listening to good solid preaching, if that's the only way you're communicating— like, the sermon is the last part of the preparation for the sermon.
Vallerian: Yes.
Nathan: So it's— you're like trying to mimic an echo. No, you, you, you start with the Bible. You, you then, you know, move into deep prayer. You move into how I apply the text after you understand the Bible, and then you present it to the congregation. And as we teach in Crosstalk, the last thing you write is the introduction. Well, the audience, that's the first thing I hear, right? So,
Vallerian: yes.
Nathan: So it's all backwards, right? But if you're just like listening, you're like, and you have this desire, yes, I want to serve the Lord, and you just kind of do what you know until someone comes along and says, yeah, that's not the best way. I can, similar to what Joseph here had gone through, That was kind of my experience, although I didn't have like deep theological error that way, but I just didn't know how to communicate the word effectively. Others would have said at that point, oh no, he's a good public speaker, he's a good communicator. I really was not taking the word of God, understanding it, and then figuring out how God wanted to apply it to the lives of my listeners.
Vallerian: And that's True. I think that's an experience all young preachers would go through.
Nathan: Yeah.
Vallerian: The challenge with, uh, some preachers in Kenya is, yes, what they are doing may not be God's word or the way God's word should be communicated, but they do it innocently because their desire is to communicate God's word. But
Nathan: yes,
Vallerian: they don't know how.
Nathan: Yes.
Vallerian: So what they do, they do it the best way they can, and this is what they see other, you know, big preachers doing. So they are kind of learning from them as well. But I believe someone like Joseph was doing it innocently. His goal was to minister to his people.
Nathan: Yeah, and what an amazing thing, though, for him to humbled himself to be changed by the word and then to, to carry his congregation along with him to say, yeah, let's, let's preach the word now. And for them to see and experience the real power of the Bible unleashed. It's just, it's an amazing thing. And I wish and I hope that I could have that same level of humility under the word of God that he had.
Vallerian: He should.
Nathan: And, and I I think, you know, I wish we could all, we all will have that because it is an amazing thing to be transformed by God's Word and to not fight it as we're trying to communicate it.
Vallerian: Oh, that's true. We can be stubborn at times, and I think it's worse for people that have gone to Bible colleges and seminaries than those who have not.
Nathan: Why is that?
Vallerian: Because we think we know, and therefore even when we approach God's Word, we are tempted to always anticipate what it's going to say. You know, it's not like we want it to confront us. We already know what the Bible says when we are reading. And I think that works against us in many ways. And so that humility that you are talking about, becomes hard to come by when your head is full of knowledge that you are not really— it's not really leading you to know God, but it leads you to know more about God. So yeah, from what I have seen with the crosstalk training, those who have not gone to college tend to receive it because this is the only training they have had. And then they become even better. Those who have gone to college, even though yes, once they receive it, it changes, but it takes time for them to really accept that, uh, this should be the way I should approach God's word, and this should be the way I should teach God's word. That's, that's what I have noticed in, in my experience.
Nathan: Oh my goodness, I love the way you said that we Bible scholars anticipate where the Bible is going. As a preacher, I mean, I get that. I know it. I can't tell you how many times I have approached a text and I'm like, "Okay, this is where it's going to go," which is why usually my sermon titles really don't have anything to do with the sermon, because I will kind of plan it out months in advance. I give it to the team. I usually get the topic right, but the title where I think it's going is— and then I work through the whole thing and I'm like, yeah, that's a terrible title. That's not where this sermon's going at all. But I've already got the title. It's already been published. Here we go.
Vallerian: I've gone through that too. I wish I could change the title on Friday evening, like, ah, but it's already out and you just have to go with it. Yeah. We have to consciously tell ourselves, "I don't know what God wants to say, and I'm going to listen. I'm going to listen to his voice as I study his word."
Nathan: Yeah,
Vallerian: for me, that has been, has been very helpful.
Nathan: Yes. No, I love it. I love it. How can the church in America pray and/or support the churches in Kenya?
Vallerian: Well, I think it's good to know that the church in Kenya is not perfect. It has its own share of problems. I mean, you will find corruption, divisions, burnout, and even nominal faith.
Nathan: I thought we were talking about Kenya, not the United States.
Vallerian: That's Kenya for you. But I think, I think the American church has spent more time and money learning how to do church. Here we have better buildings, sophisticated production, and then when it comes to the authority of God's word, we kind of overlook that. And you and I were talking earlier about how difficult it is to find a church that preaches biblical messages because we are at a culture where we are afraid to annoy people even with God's Word.
Nathan: Yeah.
Vallerian: In Kenya and across Africa, prayer is the first result. While in America, I think we pray only when our strategies fail. We, we don't pray first. We first read the how-to-do books. Like, there are so many books on how to do church today, how to experience church growth in 3 weeks, and how to receive 20 guests, and all that. It's until we realize everything we are doing isn't working that we, we think prayer is necessary. And you can tell prayer is not a priority by how many people attend prayer meetings.
Nathan: Oh yeah,
Vallerian: you know, that is there. And therefore, I don't think our fellowship is as strong in America as it should be. Whereas in Kenya, the church is a family you can rely on. The other thing that I see differently here— in Kenya, evangelism is a normal part of ministry. In America, it is reduced to a sermon series or a program that only a few Christians participate. I, I feel like those are things that we can improve on here. Uh, the other thing I see is, uh, in America we fight over worship style, like hymns versus contemporary, lights versus no light, or even the length of the service and the length of the sermon. Well, in Kenya, these are not the issues we focus on. Sunday is the day of the Lord, and we worship the Lord with all we have because the focus must be on God, not on individual preferences or traditions. There are times when I go to Kenya, I would preach almost 4 times on a Sunday. Wow. So I'll preach in the morning, I will preach, I'll preach after the morning service, then I'll preach after lunch, and then I'll preach in the evening. And no one will complain about time. In fact, they, they want it that way. So people would break for lunch. So it's, it's a Sunday worship, but it's, it's more like a conference or something.
Nathan: Yeah.
Vallerian: But I think America can give Kenya the training and the resources that are available here, and that's why a ministry like Crosstalk is necessary for Kenyan preachers and for Kenyan church at large. But I think Kenya can give America the hunger for God's Word. The community that people need, because people are very individualistic and to some extent isolated here. And also the courage to share our faith, which is something I'm really praying for our congregation. It's, it's amazing that we have people that have been Christian for years, but they don't have an an experience where they shared their faith intentionally with someone else, and I think that's sad.
Nathan: It is a huge problem within our local churches. It really is. And back to your comment about community and family, there's a family in my church that I serve from Nigeria, and one of my dear sisters from that family, she'd said in her home country, she would never be able to stay at home without people coming by and stopping in and her having conversations with people. But here in America, if you stayed in your home, you probably would never see anyone. No one would ever come by, no one would ever see you. The lack of community is incredible.
Vallerian: You know, that reminds me, Nathan, at a church where I was an interim, I went to visit a guy who was dying from cancer. We prayed, that was my first month, we prayed, so I am trying to connect with people. And then a few weeks later, there was a lady who was admitted at a hospital, and I went to visit her. When she saw me, she was shocked. And I'm looking at her, she's looking at me, and, and she, she— I could tell she was shocked. And I was like, what have I done? What? You know. And then she looked at me, she said, they didn't tell me that I was dying. I was like, what makes you think you're dying? Well, you are here. But no, I just came to see you. I was told you were admitted. I just— and she said the previous pastor only visited people when they were dying.
Nathan: Oh wow.
Vallerian: So that sense of concern and wanting to know, you know, how the other person is doing was not there. It's just the last response. Well, this person is dying, let me show up and maybe pray with them.
Nathan: Wow.
Vallerian: Yeah, that was an experience. It made me question myself every time I wanted to visit someone at the hospital.
Nathan: Yeah, absolutely. And it sounds like, you know, Kenya has a lot to teach us about desiring the Word of God, desiring to pray, and relationships. Understanding those relationships is so important. In fact, before we started recording this, I was sharing with Pastor Valerian that my my church, we have a young adults ministry that is just growing and growing and growing. And I was talking to some colleagues and they said, oh, what are you doing? What are you doing? And I said, I'm not really doing that much to grow it. I think all that's happening is we are giving young people space to have relationships with each other in person, face to face, uh, without the cell phones. In fact, I introduced a game where we played them with cell phones and they all got angry at me because they said, this defeats the whole purpose of us getting together.
Vallerian: Ah, that's good.
Nathan: So, so it's great. I think they are, they're hungry for the Lord and they are hungry for relationships, godly relationships where they can meet face to face. And, uh, they're tired of kind of the, the American isolation that happens, um, and, uh, they don't want to wait till they're dying for a pastor to show up.
Vallerian: Yeah.
Nathan: Oh my goodness. Oh. Oh, that's hard. That's hard.
Vallerian: Well, we live and learn, and ministry keeps on teaching us every day.
Nathan: It sure does.
Vallerian: I just wanted to say, I know this is a different culture, but I still feel that the church can be a place where people feel like at least they have a community, they have a family they can rely on, especially in a culture where people are so individualistic, isolated, and most of them lonely, really.
Nathan: Wonderful, wonderful. Well, Valerian, thank you for giving us an update on Kenya. Thank you for your ministry here in the States and in Kenya. We appreciate it.
Vallerian: You're welcome. Thank you, sir.
Nathan: Don't anticipate where the Bible is going. Submit yourself under the Word of God and let it transform you. The Crosstalk Podcast is a production of Crosstalk Global, equipping biblical communicators so every culture hears God's voice. To find out more about this educational nonprofit organization, please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org. Crosstalk is getting ready to train biblical communicators in Southern California, Florida, Cuba, Bucharest, Moldova, and Nepal. Help us train the next generation of Biblical Communicators. All you have to do is click donate in the show notes and make a donation any size. You can even direct it towards Kenya. You can also support this show by rating it on whatever platform you're listening to us on. Be sure to listen next Friday and discover how to go deeper in your relationship with God. You won't want to miss it. Talk instructor, Pastor Valerian Mugenga. Welcome to Crossed. Did I pronounce that right?
Vallerian: Yeah, that's fine.
Nathan: No, no, no, get— No, that
Vallerian: is fine.
Nathan: Mugenga.
Vallerian: Mugenga.
Nathan: Mugenga.
Vallerian: Mugenga. Yes, so it's Mugenga, the first G.
Nathan: Mugenga.
Vallerian: As in gal. Very good.
Nathan: Mugenga.
Vallerian: Yeah.
Nathan: Okay, that's— I'm gonna have to say it a few times and then splice it in because I'm not gonna get it. Thank you.