Why are our interactions with fellow church members so important?
Text: 1 Peter 3:8-16
Hosts:
J. Kent Edwards
Vicki Hitzges
Nathan Norman
Narrator: Brian French
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2025 CrossTalk Global
Kent: Foreign.
Nathan: Hi, this is Nathan Norman. During the month of July, we're taking a break from recording and bringing you some of our best episodes from the last four years. We'll begin recording new material in August. Until then, enjoy this look back.
Brian: It's been said that life is a test. It is a test of many things, of our convictions and priorities, our faith and our faithfulness, our patience and our resilience. And in the end, our ultimate desires. How we respond to difficult situations gives the world insight into our character. That's especially true in our dealings with difficult people, because when we respond to those who are unkind, rude and insulting as they have treated us, it reveals a poor relationship with our God, especially when it happens within the church. Why are our interactions with fellow church members so important? Find out why as Kent Edwards, Vicki Hitchkiss, and Nathan Norman discover the answer in the book of First Peter. Welcome to CrossTalk, a Christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible, but to take the next step beyond information into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life, into all our lives. I'm Brian French. Today, Dr. Kent Edwards, Vicki Hitchkiss, and Nathan Norman continue their discussion through the book of 1 Peter. If you have a Bible handy, turn to 1 Peter, chapter 3, verses 8 to 16. And as we join their discussion.
Kent: Nathan. Vicki, it's been a few weeks since the Apostle Peter urged us back in chapter two to live as foreigners and exiles by living such good lives among the pagans that though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us. Nathan, for those listeners who may have missed earlier podcasts, can you give us remind us of the context of that passage?
Nathan: Well, the believers are being persecuted for their faith, and yet Peter is asking them to continue to share their faith, which results in more persecution. While their pagan neighbors might be hostile to a gospel presentation, they still can't help but notice the change of lifestyle. Their behavior is so different from everyone else that they are embodiments of the gospel. And they have to be asking the question why their lives are evidence that demands a verdict. Why do these people live differently from everyone else?
Kent: Wow. So they're so distinctive in how they live their lives that their neighbors see evidence of the gospel.
Nathan: Right.
Kent: Wow. Okay. Vicki, can you remind us, in the past couple of weeks, Peter has talked about two ways that Christians are living distinctive lifestyles. Do you remember what those are?
Vicki: Yeah. In fact, I'll read the Verses, it says, submit yourself for the Lord's sake to every human authority. That means even if you don't like the president, be submissive, whether to the emperor as the supreme authority or to governors who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. And then it says, wives, in the same way, submit yourselves to your own husbands, so that if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives. When they see the purity and reverence of your lives, it goes on. Husbands, in the same way, be considerate as you live with your wives and treat them with respect.
Kent: So the distinctive element of Christian living seems to be submission, right?
Vicki: Yes, submission. Gracious living.
Kent: Yeah. So rather than being arrogant and demanding our own way, Christians stand out in society because they submit not only to their government, but there's mutual submission in marriage. Wives submit to husbands, and husbands in the same way are considerate, submissive to the needs of their wives. That's interesting, but in the Bible now we have even an additional way of demonstrating the gospel in our lives as Christians. There's a third distinctive element of Christian living. And what is that?
Vicki: Well, it says, finally, all of you, be like minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.
Kent: Be like minded, sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and be humble. You might even say that means that to other people in the church, we are to do what?
Vicki: Well, one word.
Kent: Submit.
Vicki: Be kind. Yeah, submit. Okay.
Kent: Yeah. Put other people's interests ahead of ourselves. So he does talk about a relationship with government, our relationship in marriage, but now he's talking about the relationship between believers. So the context of this is within the local church. Right. And he gives five different descriptions of how we should be treating each other within the church.
Nathan: Wait a minute. You said there's a third aspect. And I thought, you know what? I can get through one more of distinctive Christian living. And now that third aspect has five aspects to it.
Kent: To be fair, all five will point us in the same direction. So there is a unity among them.
Nathan: Okay, fair enough.
Kent: He says we are to be like minded. What does like minded mean?
Nathan: Being of the same mind.
Kent: Okay, thank you for that.
Nathan: So you're in agreement with the distinctives, direction, the mission of the church, the philosophy of the church, how they do things.
Kent: So kind of like in the same way that in the fall, I might see geese flying overseas overhead. And as they're flying overhead, they are in formation, they help each other as they are making progress. They are not only Going the same direction. But everyone's efforts benefits everyone else. They've got the same mission. That's how we are to be as a church. We are to be completely unified. Okay, so Nathan, you're pastoring. Is that difficult to achieve in a local church?
Nathan: Yeah, it sure is. Everyone has different thoughts, different ideas, and I honestly think that's why there are a lot of different churches out there. Because in areas that are not like sin or righteous related, we have different philosophies of ministry. We have different philosophies of how we should do evangelism, how we should reach out, what kind of worship music we should have, who is able to lead in such a capacity, who is not able to lead in. In certain capacities. And so I think people tend to go to churches that fit their philosophy behind those things. It can be difficult. Right. And especially if you're at a church that doesn't have an unlimited budget. And I don't know of a single church that does have an unlimited budget. There's only so many things you can do and there's only so much energy. And so we should spend our money on this outreach. We should spend our money on this outreach. It becomes very difficult.
Kent: So churches can have different philosophies of how they will accomplish God's purposes, but in a local church, I think what Peter is saying here is that there has to be unity within that church in the direction they're going. Yeah, it won't work.
Nathan: It just won't work.
Kent: They've got to have the same goals and they've got to agree on how they're going to accomplish those goals. Right?
Nathan: Right.
Kent: So as you've just noted, we don't always agree. You may think that one to one evangelism is the best, and I may argue for crusades or big events, but if we're going to be like minded, one of us needs to submit, Right? Yeah. So I may say I don't fully agree, but I'm fully on board with that decision. That's not easy. That's submission. That doesn't happen in every organization. Certainly doesn't happen in every political organization we see in our country and beyond. But it's to be present in the church. It's a distinctive submissive lifestyle.
Nathan: Well. And what I've found to be helpful. So we have an elder team in my church and I am a part of that team. And oftentimes I'll come and I'm like, I've got this idea, we want to do this, and I throw it at Them and they pick it apart and we'll argue about it. And it is frustrating, right, when they just kind of like, no, we're not doing that idea, or they'll say we can't do this aspect of it or whatever it is. But what I found is from that usually, usually like 80% of my idea, we go forward with, right? And we have entire unity over that. And I find that encouraging because usually the 20% that they cut off was absolute garbage. And in retrospect, when they just shoot down ideas totally a year or two after the fact, I look back and go, that was an absolute garbage idea. And praise God that you shot that down. So it's difficult in the moment to say, okay, but if I've got the entire elder team versus it's just not going to work. Usually if I get one or two on my side, then we can go forward. But I found it so much more helpful. It's easy. Rather than having 100% of what I want done and no enthusiasm, I'd rather have 80% of what I want done and filled with enthusiasm. Because then the work is easy.
Kent: And doing that, being willing to admit that maybe your idea wasn't perfect, that means swallowing your pride. That means submitting. And that's distinctive. That is, when we do that, I think we are demonstrating a unique Christian behavior that is evidence to the world. But he goes on, not only are we to be like minded, we are to be sympathetic. So what do you mean sympathetic?
Vicki: Oh, when I think of it, I think I put myself in another person's place and I try to feel emotionally what they're going through.
Kent: Do you remember times when that's happened in the church?
Vicki: I had a friend who was a widow in the church. She was older and she just gave and gave and gave. And she helped this blind girl, gave to her, helped her get set up in her own house, in her own condo, and she was lovely to her, brought her to her home every single week and just gave and gave, poured into her life. And then over time, this girl got involved with a guy and she kind of went her own way. And then this other woman who was a believer came along and she accused this widow I'm telling you about of taking advantage of the blind girl, not knowing any of the background, not knowing anything, and ended up suing the widow.
Kent: Oh, wow.
Vicki: And I went to the widow and said, let me help, let me help you. But I look back on it now and I wish I had really helped her. I mean, I wish I had gone to the courtroom. I wish I had been a character witness. I wish I had taken other people from our church and, you know, I was young, but I just, I just, I think she lost the case and she shouldn't have. She was wonderful, but I was genuinely sympathetic to her. But I wish I'd been more effective.
Kent: I think another time where we can be sympathetic to others is when somebody insults us or is rude or abrasive.
Nathan: Oh, come on, stop making this harder than it already has to be, Kent.
Kent: So rather than, you know, just responding, reacting to them, how dare they do that? They shouldn't have done that. To be willing to say, I'm going to give them a break, I'm going to be sympathetic. Chances are they've been going through something difficult. There's something in the background that is hurting them. Rather than hold it against them, I'm going to be sympathetic, be aware of what they're going through and I'm going to give them a pass on that. I think that's being sympathetic as people act. But Peter goes on, yes, as Christians, as we live in community, we radiate Christ as we are like minded, as we are sympathetic and as we love one another. The Greek word there is something you are familiar with, I think.
Nathan: Nathan Philadelphia Brotherly love, brotherly affection. Affection you have for family members.
Kent: So, Vicki, do you love your brother?
Vicki: I adore my brother. He's my real brother.
Kent: How do you display, what is the evidence of your love for your, for your brother?
Vicki: Well, one picture pops in my head. He used to live in Wisconsin. He's a pastor. He used to be a pastor of a church up there and, and he lived in this huge wooden house. I am bright enough to live in Texas because you don't have to shovel heat. And we, and we have brick houses and you don't have to paint brick, but you had to paint his. He had to paint his entire house. Every three years I'd go up there and I'd help him scrape that house and paint that house. And to me, and I hope this doesn't take crowns away from me in heaven because I want them up there. But, but I help him with that house. And to me, that is showing genuine affection.
Kent: Yeah, it does. We help family, right?
Vicki: Yes.
Kent: When family's in need, we respond. That's brotherly love. And what Peter is telling us is that, guess what, we have the same father as Christians, we have one father and who is in heaven. And that means we are brothers and sisters in Christ. In Eastern Europe, it's their tradition that they always refer to a person as brother or sister. So and so seemed kind of odd from my context. We don't always do that. But it reflects a reality that in the same way that I care about my brothers and sisters, so I need to show that same care for them, that brotherly love, because we are all part of the same spiritual family. You don't see that in the world. But in a genuine church, Peter says that's what's to be found. And not only that, he says we are to be compassionate. That word compassionate is quite literally a very deep word, isn't it?
Nathan: Literally, bowels of emotion. In Western culture, the seat of the emotion is the human heart. In Eastern and Near east cultures, the heart is like your innermost person. It's not just emotional. In near east cultures, it is the bowels is the seed of emotion. Which makes sense, right? Because things are going well and you've got things operating smoothly. If things are going bad, you might be constipated, you might have diarrhea. Your body feels what you are feeling. And so compassionate actually is a really cool word because it means that you are not just feeling for yourself. You're feeling what someone else is going through. You have concern. The same concern your body has for yourself, you have for them.
Kent: Yeah, I see. It's interesting. That same word is used of Jesus in the Gospel of Mark when he sees a leper. And the text says, at least in English, that Jesus was filled with compassion. He was touched to the core of his being. His bowels are moved with compassion, as he is man. And while no one else would have anything to do with that leper because he was diseased, he was unclean, and they wanted to protect themselves. Jesus didn't just, you know, nod at him and give a few coins to him. He reached out and touched him because of that compassion. It's compassion that acts. It's compassion that does something. It's love in action. Nathan, we may have talked about this in a previous podcast, but I was amazed and encouraged when I heard about how your church had demonstrated bowels of compassion for the community not long ago. Do you want to remind us of that?
Nathan: Yeah. It's actually our association, so we have a small association of churches that we're a part of. I'm the moderator currently. Anyways. And we found this opportunity where this company buys up medical debt legally for pennies on the dollar, and then partners with other people and forgives. It just completely disperses of the entire debt. And so I forgot how much it Was, I think. I think we invested as an association, $15,000, and that dispersed something like $1.2 million worth of debt. So we got all of the medical debt they could get their hands on in Northern Michigan and then a few other places, because they couldn't find that much. But that was, you know, and it was good. They were supposed to send out letters with who did it, with the names of our churches. I don't think they actually did that. And I was a little, you know, annoyed at that. But our director of missions, Darren, who is also one of the elders of the church here, as I'm kind of like, you know, miffed about, he's like, you know what? It doesn't matter. Like, we did the right thing. We had it within our ability to do this and to help others. And, I mean, we could see the amounts per individual that were dispersed. We could not see the names, obviously, for privacy reasons, but there was one that was dispersed. I think it was something like $85,000.
Kent: Wow.
Nathan: I can't even imagine the stress of having $85,000 worth of medical debt hanging over and then getting a letter in the mail saying, it's gone, it's clear. Right? And what's crazy is, I'm pretty sure the reason I really found out that we didn't have it dispersed is I found out there was a member of our church who had large amounts of medical debt. And I found this out a few years after we had done this. And she mentioned it, like, the time that you guys paid for my medical debt, I'm like, what are you talking about? Oh, this happened. It wasn't you guys. I'm like, oh, timeframe. Like, oh, no, that totally was us. I mean, we had no means of directing where it went, but it was a beautiful thing to see that the burden of this thousands and thousands of dollars of medical debt were taken up.
Kent: You know, when I'm at the grocery store and I'm checking out the pops up, and it says, do you want to give $5 to this cause that they have? And that could be nice. And there's nothing wrong with that. But that's not bowels of compassion that Peter is talking about here. This is going beyond just, you know, dropping a quarter in somebody's bag and who is in need. This is going out of our way, doing what no one else would do to demonstrate how much we care for them. This is like the Good Samaritan who stops and helps the man on the side of the road, not knowing who they are with no benefit for them, but they just cannot walk by because they care. And that's not what we find in the world. That's what we find in someone who loves God. We don't love our neighbor unless we also love God. And our love, the love we have for God when we're like him will reflect itself to others.
Nathan: A good example of this, I think is moving. Moving in and out of a place is horrible. And I remember when we moved from California to here, we had a bunch of people from the church show up and I thanked them profusely. And one guy who had left the church over some legitimate reasons, and I just thanked him profusely and he commented, you really know who your friends are and who loves you when they show up to help you move away.
Vicki: Yes.
Nathan: Right. So here, right when we moved here, like, you know, there's lots of people, they're excited, hey, this is our new guy, right? So we had all sorts of people. We were unpacked in like two minutes. But when you're leaving, right, they say that there's nothing you can offer them anymore. And, and I've always kept that, you know, that's always stuck with me. What, what my friend Jeff had said is you really know who loves you and who's your friends when they show up to help you move away. So when people are moving away from the church, I try as hard as I can to show up and help because you know, we're not going to see you again. But we love you, Nathan.
Vicki: You have the best heart.
Nathan: Well, not for long if I keep moving pianos because it's going to give out. But thank you.
Kent: The last attribute, he says that is to characterize Christians living in community is humility. Humility means voluntary submission to others, means to be unselfish, not demand our own way, to be lowly, subservient. One might say to live in submission to others. When these five attributes are true of us, when we are like minded, sympathetic, when we love one another in a brotherly way, when we are truly compassionate and we live with each other in genuine humility, the church becomes a beacon of the gospel. Peter is saying that this will result in distinctive Christian living and have an evangelistic impact. That's what we are to do. Then he goes, what we are not to do. So if these are the positive things that should be true of our local churches, what are the negative things? What are we not to do as we live in community? We see that in verse nine, don't we?
Vicki: It says, don't repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing. Because to this you are called so that you may inherit a blessing.
Kent: Whoo. Now, this is kind of tough, isn't it? Because if someone is doing evil to us, how do we want to respond.
Nathan: To do evil back and maybe a little bit more?
Kent: Yeah, Typically.
Nathan: Well, you got to go a little bit higher so that they stop what they are doing. They learn their lesson, right? Yeah. You don't show weakness.
Kent: Yeah. The natural human reaction is to fight fire with fire. When we're attacked, retaliate. And Peter says no. If those attributes that he's just mentioned are true of us as we live in community, it means we don't pass on evil. We become shock absorbers, if you will. We don't allow the insults and jabs of others to carry on. We take it. We respond with blessing, wanting to help them, not harm them. When we act this way, we are submitting to one another, just as Christians do to the government, just like husbands and wives do to each other. Christians submit? Why? What's the benefit of that? Well, partly, I think it's in our own best interest. I mean, I think of David in Psalm 133 when he says in verse 1 how good and pleasant it is when God's people live together in unity. I want to belong to a church like this. Wouldn't you?
Vicki: Oh, yeah. It's just wonderful to live in unity.
Kent: Yeah. You're not afraid of anyone. You feel confident that they're going to be sympathetic to you if you make them boo. Boo. And you'll do the same, same for them. You're unified. You've got a vision, You've got a purpose. Everyone's on board. They're using what they have to advance the job of the purpose of the church. We get to enjoy the blessing of a healthy community that no one outside of Christ could ever enjoy.
Vicki: What does it mean that it says, but to this you are called so that you may inherit a blessing. Does that mean a blessing in heaven? Does that mean a blessing here? What does that mean you will inherit a blessing?
Nathan: Where were you reading?
Kent: Okay, I'm not sure where you're reading.
Vicki: It says, on the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you are called that you may inherit a blessing. Does that mean you'll pass that on to your children? Everybody will live in harmony and that's a blessing? Or is that talking about eternally you'll have a blessing or both?
Kent: Well, I think that's God pleasing life. You will enjoy you will be better off as you do this. So does it mean that God can give you some blessings? Yeah, I think he could. But I think you are blessed. You will have a much better life if this happens.
Vicki: And you will.
Kent: Yeah, you will. I mean, because as we have said in the past, something's not true because it's in the Bible. It's in the Bible because it's true. By the way, that's my statement, not your dad's.
Nathan: I'm going to put that as a social media post. Quote you on that one.
Kent: No. So as Christians, we have the possibility of having the best possible community life in the church because we have the Holy Spirit within us. And as the Holy Spirit does his work, that the fruit of the Spirit becomes evident. We are truly a society that no club, no secular organization could ever come close to. And that's the kind of church that I want to belong to. Plus, we know that in Psalm 34 it tells us we will enjoy the blessing of God. For there the psalmist says, whoever would love life and see good days must keep their tongue from evil and their lips from deceitful speech. They must turn from evil and do good. They must seek peace and pursue it. For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil. So God knows and God responds to the choices we make and how we decide to live with each other in community. But not only do we enjoy the benefit of living in community, but when we live in community the way God calls us to, it's in the best interest of the larger community, the non Christians that we live amongst. Because when we live counterculturally, when we place a greater priority on others than on ourselves, if instead of selfishly grasping as much as we can from as many people as we can, if instead we put others first, we submit to the government, to our spouse and our fellow church members. When we do that, we resemble Christ, don't we?
Vicki: Absolutely.
Kent: I mean, he demonstrated his love for us by dying while we were still sinners. What was in it for Him?
Nathan: Nothing.
Kent: He demonstrated the kind of love and submission to others that God wants us to show. And when we do this, people see Christ. That's why he says, live such good lives among the pagans that when they accuse you of doing wrong. Remember back in chapter two, verse 12, that when you live such lives, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us. Was it mean that they will glorify God on the day he visits us.
Nathan: That they're Christians, they've trusted in Christ.
Kent: That they have been so influenced by the way we live distinctive lives that they have come to know Christ as your Savior. And when they are shocked by our submissive life and they wonder how we as Christians can live together in submission when no one else on the planet does that, Peter says, don't be silent. I think this may be one of your favorite verses, Vicki. What does Peter say in chapter three, verse 13?
Vicki: He says, always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. Keep a clear conscience so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
Kent: Hmm. Always be prepared to give an answer. Yes, we live distinctive Christian lives, and when that gives us the opportunity, we tell them about the Savior who died for them. Living the Gospel is not enough. We have to speak it as well. So in these past three podcasts, we see that the genuineness of our faith is demonstrated in the distinctive relationships we have with government, our spouses and fellow Christians. And when our churches are islands of harmony because we refuse to retaliate even when there is someone who is unkind, rude and insulting, the character of Christ is revealed. And when we in the power of the Holy Spirit live unselfish lives in the midst of our selfish societies, people can see Christ in us and we will gain the right to tell them about the Savior who transformed our lives and can transform theirs as well. My challenge to all of us is that we would in submission lived such good lives among the pagans that they might see our good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.
Brian: The times are dark, but even our enemies can see Christ in our lives if we live distinctively. One way to do that which we saw today, we submit to fellow church members. When our persecutors or enemies see us do that, they will know that in a good way, we're different. I trust that today's discussion of God's Word has been helpful and served as an encouragement to not just be hearers of the Word, but doers together. Let's bring God's Word to life to our lives. This week, the Cross Talk podcast is a production of crosstalk Global, equipping biblical communicators so every culture hears God's voice. To find out more or to support the work of this Ministry, please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org. you can also support this show by sharing it on your social media and telling your friends. Tune in next Friday as we continue our discussion through 1 Peter. Be sure to join us.