What is the evidence that person has really been transformed by Christ?
Text: 1 Peter 2:13-25
Hosts:
J. Kent Edwards
Vicki Hitzges
Nathan Norman
Narrator: Brian French
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2025 CrossTalk Global
Brian: Foreign.
Nathan: Hi, this is Nathan Norman. During the month of July, we're taking a break from recording and bringing you some of our best episodes from the last four years. We'll begin recording new material in August. Until then, enjoy this look back.
Brian: You probably have heard the old saying, the proof is in the pudding. The saying endures because it speaks truth. The pudding might look delicious, but you can't be sure without the evidence of your taste buds. A car can look impressive, but does it run? A house may have an excellent floor plan, but does it have termites? And when we share the gospel, a non believer may say, that sounds wonderful, but can a person really be transformed by Christ? Can Jesus really make me a new creation? I need evidence. Well, for the next three weeks, Kent Edwards, Nathan Norman and Vicki Hitskiss will learn from the Apostle Peter that the genuineness of our faith is proven as we demonstrate three specific behaviors, behaviors that are so radically different from unbelievers that they are undeniable evidence of the genuineness of the Gospel. Wonder what these are. Let's listen in and discover the first one today. Welcome to CrossTalk, a Christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible, but to take the next step beyond information into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life, into all our lives. I'm Brian French. Today, Dr. Kent Edwards, Vicki Hitchkiss and Nathan Norman continue their discussion through the book of First Peter. If you have a Bible handy, turn to First Peter, chapter 2, verses 13 to 25. As we join their discussion.
Kent: One of the ways that we distinguish between various species of living creatures is by their distinctive behavior. Let's think about that for a moment. What are some of the distinctive behaviors that separate one species of living creatures from another? Can you think of some examples?
Vicki: Basic stuff. I mean, like birds fly, that kind of stuff.
Kent: Well, that distinguishes them from.
Vicki: You don't see a lot of crocodiles in the air.
Nathan: Flying crocodiles. That'd be terrifying.
Vicki: Yeah. Wouldn't it, though? Wouldn't it, though? Fish don't know they're wet. They swim.
Kent: Yeah, yeah. By the way, for long periods. So that they have to have gills to do that. Right. Because other people swim. But not. Not for the same duration as a fish. Obviously.
Vicki: We are science experts. Dogs bark. Spiders create webs.
Nathan: Right. Mosquitoes bite. Cats don't listen to you.
Vicki: That's true. That's so true.
Nathan: Although, listeners, I am a cat person. I have two cats. But they don't listen to you.
Vicki: They don't Listen to you. And I am, too. And dogs are always, Almost always loving.
Kent: Yeah. So we could distinguish one species of animal from another largely because of their behavior. Their behavior is evidence that they belong to that specific species. Now, some apologies to any biologists who are listening, because I'm not an expert and you're going to find some exceptions to what we're saying. But I'm just trying to prove the general rule that we can identify creatures by their specific unique behavior. And I make that point because I think what's true of the animal kingdom is. Is also true of spiritual kingdoms, that those who belong to the kingdom of God demonstrate unique behavior that testifies to where they belong. And the behavior that distinguishes them from those who belong to the kingdom of darkness, well, they demonstrate completely opposite behavior. So we know where someone belongs largely because of the evidence of their lives. I think that's why Peter wrote what he did in verses 11 and 12 of 1 Peter, chapter 2. Vicki, could you read that for us? Just to help set the scene, sir.
Vicki: It says, dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles to abstain from sinful desires which wage war against your soul. Live such good lives among the pagans that though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.
Kent: I think those are really significant verses. Let's unpack them a little bit. Do you notice the double meaning in the first part of verse 11 when he says, dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles? There's a play on words there.
Nathan: Yeah. You are kicked out of a place and can't live there, and you are also a foreigner in a new place. Right?
Kent: Right. So they're physically foreigners and exiles. Right. They are Jewish Christians who have been forced by persecution to live in a place that is not where their parents were from, not their ancestral home.
Nathan: But they're also spiritual foreigners and exiles, or strangers and aliens, as some translations would say.
Kent: So in what way are the recipients aliens and strangers? I mean, he says they are nationally different, but they're also to be behaviorally different. So in which way are they supposed to be strangers behaviorally?
Vicki: To abstain from sinful desires.
Kent: So they are to be unique among the people they are living among because, unlike the pagans, they will be abstaining from sinful desires which live against your soul. So they're to be unique and strange in the sense that they are holy people in an unholy community.
Nathan: Right. They live different. They live differently. Right. They say, hey, come on, Bob, let's go worship Marduk together at the festival. No, I can't do that, Jerry. You know.
Kent: Let'S get drunk, let's go to temple, prostitutes, let's do whatever. No, no. Because as a Christian, Christians are identified as Christians because of their unique behavior. Why? So why does Paul say it's critical that they live as strangers, not just culturally, but morally, in the environment in which they find themselves? What does it say next in verse.
Nathan: 12, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.
Kent: Hmm. Live such good lives that even though the pagans may accuse you of wrongdoing, they don't like you because of your difference. But in spite of that, they may see your good deeds, they may see the holiness in your life. And eventually, the day that God visits us, when Christ returns, because of that impact of their holiness, what will happen?
Vicki: They'll glorify God.
Nathan: Right. They turned believers, too.
Kent: Yeah. So this is evangelistic lifestyle, right?
Nathan: Right.
Kent: Because of your holiness, you can reach people for Christ. Wow. Now, holiness is broad, and it takes on many different elements of our life. But Peter here focuses in on three major elements of our distinctive lifestyle. This week, as we just heard, we're going to be looking at the first, and we see the kind of distinctive lifestyle we're to live in our pagan environment. Ooh. What does he say in verses 13 and 14?
Vicki: He says, Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human authority, whether to the emperor as the supreme authority, or to governors.
Kent: Wow.
Nathan: I'm glad Vicki had to read that.
Kent: There's no. That is not popular saying today that we should, as Christians, be unique in a world that is filled with sin. And one of the characteristics where we should be unique is in our support of government. We should be the ones in all of society who submit. In case you're wondering if there's a workaround, the definition of that word, submit, means to submit to the orders or directives of someone. To obey. To submit. It's talking about submission. Whew. Well, we all kind of giggled when we heard that verse being read because it's not very popular today, is it?
Nathan: No.
Kent: No. Why? Why do we have such resistance to submitting ourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men?
Nathan: Well, I mean, I don't want to. Right. And I imagine in Western cultures like our own, it's even harder because we're so individualistic. And so I just want to do what I want to do. But even in Eastern cultures, I mean, sin thrives there, too. We don't want to do what we don't want to do. And I think there's a natural rebellion that we have against authority. I mean, look at all our. Look at all of our stories, for crying out loud. Right? Star wars, it's always the Rebel alliance, right? It's not.
Kent: That's true.
Nathan: It's not the imperial people who are in charge, like, hey, the guys with all the power, These are the good guys. No, it's always the little scrappy guys, the underdogs who have to come up and fight over the man.
Kent: And by the way, isn't that the story of our country, of America?
Nathan: Of course, King George, Paul.
Kent: And quite frankly, even though we may not be leading a rebellion like Star wars or back in the early days of American history, but frankly, we don't always agree. Right. With the decisions of government.
Nathan: No. And frankly, they make the wrong decisions.
Vicki: Sometimes they do make the wrong decisions.
Kent: And sometimes immoral decisions. Right?
Nathan: Yeah, absolutely.
Kent: Yeah.
Nathan: And I gotta say, I've shared this text and also the one from Paul in Romans on social media, just saying, hey, this is a hard text. That's it. No comment on anything else. And, man, I've gotten attacked by Christians and they're like, man, you would abandon Christ, wouldn't you?
Kent: What?
Nathan: I'm quoting the Bible and saying this is hard. And no, no, you would abandon Christ at the first opportunity because you quoted this Bible verse. Okay. And that's how difficult it is. Even believers look at this and struggle.
Vicki: If the powers that be make an immoral choice, we don't have to agree with their choice, but we are still called to speak of the leaders respectfully. Which you don't see on social media.
Nathan: Right?
Kent: Yeah. It's interesting here, as Peter makes this point, I see in these verses three reasons that support why we should submit to authorities. Vicki, would you read verses 13 and a little bit more of 14?
Vicki: Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human authority, whether to the emperor as a supreme authority or to the governors who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.
Kent: Huh? So these people in government that we may not agree with that are certainly not Christians that don't respect the Lord and his word. They are what they were sent. By who?
Vicki: By the Lord. By the Lord.
Kent: Ah. They are God's gift to us. Well, we don't want that gift. We think this gift sucks. We don't want that at all. But what's worse than a bad government?
Nathan: No government.
Kent: That's Anarchy. There are many flawed governments around the world. Every government is flawed. Every government is sinful in some way. But to not have government. I mean, you and I know that we read news reports of some areas of Mexico, for example, where the drug lords have control and the government does not have control. Is that paradise?
Nathan: No.
Kent: That's the scariest of all situations. We need government, and God picks our governments. He did that all through the Bible, right? For Israel. He said, I want to pick your kings, which is, by the way, one of the reasons he was not in favor of them having kings. Because then it became a genetic choice rather than God's specific action within that particular person. But either way, they came from God as a gift. And therefore, to rebel against the government is to rebel against whom? Ultimately?
Vicki: God.
Kent: That's right, God. You're wrong, God. We're going to take our life into our own hands. We disagree with the choice that you made, and we are going to fix it. Too bad you're not as smart as usual. That's open rebellion. A third, I think that we see that it advances the Gospel. Look at what Peter says in verse 15.
Vicki: He said, for it's God's will that by doing good, you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover up for evil. Live as God's slaves.
Kent: Ultimately, you're answerable to the Lord and to the government that he gives to us. But when we live holy lives, when we are among all of society, the ones that will not rebel, when that happens, we silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. Hmm. It is then that our lifestyle, our holiness, is most clearly seen. I find this a challenging text, because what Peter's telling us here is submission to government is a distinctively Christian trait. That's why in verse 17, he says, show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, and honor the emperor. Hmm. Okay, Nathan Peter's command here is that they are to honor the emperor. What did that mean for them?
Nathan: That meant to honor or show respect to a monster.
Kent: What do you mean, monster?
Nathan: No, you have lots of monsters. Before the time of Christ, he had Caesar Augustus, who was so arrogant that he demanded to have this census taken to show the world how great he was.
Kent: Right.
Nathan: Compare and contrast that to how Jesus entered the scene in a humble stable, born in a feed trough. Here, Caesar Augustus is moving hundreds of thousands, millions of people just so he can have a number to show the rest of the world, most of which he's conquered. At that point, how great he is. You have Tiberius, who Christ was crucified under, probably didn't know much about what was happening with Jesus in particular, but was a monster to Judea and Galilee and other places. You have Caligula, who's had lots of scandalous movies made about him. The less said about him is the better. Claudius, continuing on with his violence. Nero, who literally used Christians as lighting sources as party candles for his parties. Just horrendous. And you can go on and on and on up through these emperors who just. Whether they were fighting against Christians or God's people or, I mean, slavery, just the conditions of human slavery were just atrocious for many people. These were not good people. They're not going to be people that were going to say, yeah, you know, I think God is well pleased with their decisions and their actions. These people reflect accurately the character of God. No, they were moral monsters.
Kent: And on every issue today that we read in our papers about the bad decision moral decisions of our government, maybe taking a look at, for example, at abortion, among other issues, the fact is that the Romans were way worse than anything we're experiencing here in North America, at least.
Nathan: Oh yeah, and that's one of my pet peeves. When people say, well, you know, things are so bad right now, they're worse than they've ever been before. I'm like looking around at least in America, and I'm like, really? Like, you know, they'll list awesome things and I'm like, okay. But they approved a pedestry where these older men would abuse young boys. Like it was a normal, good, regular thing. And they called it good. They thought this was good and righteous and holy. It was totally warped. I mean, at least you say what you will about our culture, but at least we don't live in a culture where we celebrate that kind of thing.
Kent: Thing. And how are we to respond to those in governmental authority above us.
Nathan: With respectful submission?
Kent: We don't want to, but that is a distinctive mark of the holy people of God. It's not the only one. He goes on to talk about submission to authority in a whole different context also not a particularly pleasant context, but real nonetheless. He directs his attention in a slightly different direction in verse 18, doesn't he, Vicki?
Vicki: It says, slaves in reverent fear of God, submit yourselves to your masters.
Kent: Ay, ay, ay, ay, ay. Peter, this is tough. Slaves are to submit themselves in reverent fear to their masters. When we read this, I think it's important to note this is not an Endorsement of slavery. It's an instruction to those who are being victimized by slavery on how, as Christians, they should respond to their situation. I mean, the Bible is against slavery, right? Can we just put that right out?
Nathan: Yes. How do you know right off? In Genesis, we were all made in God's image. Israel was commanded to take care of the alien and foreigners among them. Not only that, but when it talks about Israel holding slaves, they weren't slaves. Essentially indentured servants. And there was rules that they were supposed to follow. And they couldn't be an indentured servant for more than seven years. They were set free. Even if they had debts, those debts were wiped out and they were set free.
Kent: And Moses is clear in the law that anyone who kidnaps another or sells him when he is caught, he must be put to death. There's a death penalty if you engage in slave trading. And in the New Testament, in 1 Timothy, we read that slave traders are listed among the ungodly and the sinful. It is not. They are not commended. It is not tolerated. It is sin. But for those trapped in this sinful work relationship, Peter speaks prophetically in verses 18 and 19, doesn't he? Yeah.
Vicki: It says, slaves in reverent fear of God, submit yourselves to your masters. Which just tells us, again, God is sovereign not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God, because.
Kent: They should do this.
Vicki: Why they are conscious of God.
Kent: Nathan, what do you think that means?
Nathan: Vicki, what do you think that means?
Vicki: I think it means that they realize God is in control. And no matter what kind of situation they find themselves in, they are there because God somehow has orchestrated that and that they are to submit themselves because God has put them there. And they are an example to those people. And if they don't, they're living in.
Kent: Sin and it'll affect the spread of the gospel.
Vicki: It will. You know, years ago, there was. I wish I could remember her name. There was. Well, there was a couple that was kidnapped in the Philippines. And lots of people in the United States prayed for this couple. I don't know if you remember, but it was a big news story. People followed it for a long time. This was about 20 years ago. And these. I wish I could remember the story better, but these people, these Philippines took this missionary couple and they held them. And weeks went by, maybe months went by, and then they were rescued. But in the rescue process, the man missionary was killed, and she. She was set free. And then she came back to the United States and she went and she told her testimony in various churches. And I got to hear her. And I had prayed for this couple, so I was really interested to hear. And she was. She was an older woman. You know, it's relative now, but she was older and she was spunky. And she said that she would be angry at these men who took them. And she'd say, would you treat your mother this way? But her husband would say, let's do what they say. God wants us to be reverent. Let's go all the way. Let's do this right. And they would sing hymns when they were together at night. And then he would. He would help carry their equipment. He'd do, you know, her husband would do whatever they wanted and then some. And he talked her into doing it. And so they would be like model prisoners. And then he was killed. And I think all the time of the influence that couple would have had on the kidnappers and especially her husband and the influence he had after his death in the United States, when she told his story, I mean, it just went on and on and on.
Kent: And imagine if they had made the different decision. They said, we're going to fight, we're going to rebel. We're going to do everything we can to make life difficult for our captors. They do that. And the whole. All the guards, the people in authority in that prison would have said, look at those Christians. They're a problem. They're an issue. And they would have lost their distinctiveness, their moral distinctiveness from all the other prisoners.
Vicki: Oh, and what. What a difference they must have made to be gracious.
Kent: And what conversations might they have been able to have with their captors? You know, Paul did that, right? Yeah, he submitted. He honored those who put him in jail, and ultimately he knew would kill them. And he was never convicted of a crime. He never even had a charge to bring against him, but he honored them. And the influence he had for that was incredible. And then Peter, to make sure everyone understands why we should suffer pain rather than injure the reputation of Christ and the growth of the kingdom, Peter gives the major emphasis to the example of Christ. I mean, look at what he does here. In verses 21, all the way down through verse 25, Nathan, to this you.
Nathan: Are called because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example that you should follow in his steps. He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth when they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate. When he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. He himself bore our sins in his body on the cross so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed, for you were like sheep going astray. But now you have returned to the shepherd and overseer of your souls.
Kent: Peter's making a huge point here, right? That when we demonstrate submission to those in authority over us, we're being like Christ. Because that's exactly what Jesus did. He honored those in authority even while they were murdering him. And his character was so clearly seen when he was dying on the cross. An innocent man treated poorly by those around him. So why does Peter make a big emphasis of this? Well, here's what I think. I think because of what I read in John chapter 21. In John chapter 21, we read that this takes place after Peter had betrayed Jesus, after he'd run away, after Peter was not willing to suffer as his Savior was suffering, but lied and defamed Jesus name in order to live a better life in the short term. And when in chapter 21, Peter came into the presence of Christ, Jesus did forgive him. He did reinstate him to say that he could feed his flock. But he also said after that he said, I tell you the truth. In John 21:18, when you were younger, you dressed yourself and went where you wanted. But when you are old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go. And Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. And Peter looked at John. He said, what about him now? Jesus answered, if I want him to remain alive, what is that to you? You must follow me. Peter's behavior after Jesus was arrested was terrible. He had put his well being ahead of the cause of Christ and dishonored the Savior he was following. So while Jesus does not reinstate Peter, he also informs Peter that because of that failure, he will face the cross he ran from. He will suffer a death of crucifixion. Because Jesus said that he must learn that we will not put our personal interest ahead of the growth of God's kingdom. And even when our government is evil, and even if our work situation is unjust and unpleasant, we will submit. We will submit. Christians in America struggle with Peter's teaching. But Nathan, imagine how this truth is heard around the world. Imagine how those of our listeners who are living in Vietnam or Cuba, Russia, or India are hearing this.
Nathan: I think it is something that they have learned and we have not. And I think it is something that we can learn from them by watching them. I remember a conversation, maybe the second or third year we were in Vietnam with one of our friends there, and he said something to the effect of, you know, the blessing that we have in Vietnam is we have absolutely no say in our government, and we know that we have no say. So it forces us to focus on prayer and living for Christ. And you Americans, because you're allowed to vote, you feel like you have a say, and so you fight and fight and fight and you forget to pray.
Kent: Yeah, we need to hear Peter's words again. Submit yourself for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men. Because if God's people rebel against authorities of any kind, whether it be in the workplace, whether it be in government, the people we rebel against will view us as a social problem, an obstacle to society, an unwanted influence. And they will share their negative experience about Christians to others who will then tell others and then to tell others. And as word spreads that Christians are a problem, that makes an issue for the kingdom. That means that Christ's reputation is being sullied. I think that's why Jesus tells us to pray and live the Lord's Prayer. Thy kingdom come. Not my kingdom, your kingdom, your will be done on earth and through me, even as it is in heaven. When we submit to evil people that are over us, people see Christ in us because that's what he did. When we submit, our lives validate the gospel we preach. We show that we are morally distinctive aliens and strangers in this world. Our lives become the evidence the world needs to know. The gospel does transform lives because we become living testimonies of our Savior. We don't respond as the rest of the world because Christ has done a work in our life. When we submit to authorities, our behavior is so unusual that our lives become the evidence the world needs to reach a verdict on the power of the gospel. We become the evidence that demands a verdict. So let us all live such good lives among the pagans that even though they accuse us of doing wrong, they will see our good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.
Brian: We may face cruel or poor leadership. How can we as Christians live distinctively? So even our persecutors in leadership over us see God's work in our lives. The answer is we should live holy lives and honor our leaders by submitting to them, knowing that it was God who put them in control over us. I trust that today's discussion of God's Word has been helpful and served as an encouragement to not just be hearers of the Word, but doers Together. Let's bring God's Word to life, to our lives. This week, the crosstalk Podcast is a production of Cross crosstalk Global, equipping biblical communicators so every culture hears God's voice. To find out more or to support the work of this Ministry, please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org. you can also support this show by sharing it on social media and telling your friends. Tune in next Friday as we continue our discussion through 1 Peter. Be sure to join.
Vicki: SA.