Why can't Christians get along?
Text: James 4.1-6, 11,12
Hosts:
J. Kent Edwards
Vicki Hitzges
Nathan Norman
Narrator: Brian French
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2026 CrossTalk Global
Nathan: Hi, crosstalk family. Here at crosstalk, we're experiencing some major technical difficulties the last two weeks and so we're unable to bring our regularly scheduled episode to you. So if you could say a prayer for us and for those who are helping us to navigate all these technical difficulties. And we thought this week we will bring you a best of episode all the way back to episode 15 where we looked at James chapter four, starting in verse one. Let's jump right in.
Brian: If you have ever been on a 10 hour road trip with young children, you've experienced family conflict. Arguing over who gets a window seat, the timing of bathroom breaks, and coping with car sickness is not easy. But conflict in the church among the family of God is much more unpleasant. If you have ever wondered why fights and quarrels break out among the followers of the Prince of Peace, then stay tuned because today Kent, Vicki and Nathan ask the question, why can't we get along? And look for answers from the Book of James? Welcome to CrossTalk, a Christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible, but to take the next step beyond information into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life, into all our lives. I'm Brian French. Today, Dr. Kent Edwards, Vicki Hitskiss and Nathan Norman continue their discussion through the Book of James by looking at James chapter four, starting in verse one. If you have a Bible handy, turn to James chapter four as we join their discussion.
Kent: Nathan, Vicki, I've got kind of a random question. Have either of you ever seen sculling? And if you have, what was your impression of it?
Nathan: Sculling? I don't even know what that is.
Vicki: I've seen it.
Kent: Have you?
Vicki: Only because my parents lived in Boston and probably in movies. Nathan, you will when we tell you what it is. It's people in long rowboats, only they're long, beautiful boats and there's like, I don't know, eight or 10 of them and they all row together in unison. Can you picture that?
Nathan: Okay, yes, I can picture it and I'm glad because I thought this was going to go to a very dark place when I heard skull ing.
Vicki: No, it's beautiful.
Kent: Yeah. No, it's a big deal in Boston and I saw it myself when we lived there. It's kind of a pride of Harvard University. And early in the morning you see those sculling boats go down the Charles River. Sculling is a variation of rowing. If you think of a rowboat, you think of kind of a squat boat that you pull Equally on the same on both oars. And you can turn only by varying the pressure on those oars. Sculling is completely different. Sculling does involve oars, but the boats are much different. They are very narrow, very hydrodynamically efficient, so they can really move quickly along the water. They involve not just your upper body strength, but your whole legs. Your whole body. You push with your legs, you pull with your arms. But what makes sculling sculling is that you adjust the direction of the boat by the turn of the oar. So the turn of the wrist very slightly changes the direction of the boat. You still pull as hard, but with this def twisting of that oar that is specially shaped, you can change the direction of the boat. So when you get like six or four, six or probably eight rowers all in one long boat, each person only pulls on one oar. So you're pulling on the left, another one's on the right, another one's on the left, another one's on the right. And everyone has to pull together in perfect harmony. And when they do, it is beauty to behold. I mean, that boat just skims down the river. It is amazing how fast it can go. And if they don't pull in harmony, they don't pull together. It's a disaster on wheels. And one of the funniest things you can do is go on YouTube and look at people trying to learn how to scull. It makes athletes look stupid until they get the handle of it. I'm telling you, it's terrible to watch. But when I think back years ago when we lived in Boston and I was watching that sculling take place down the Charles river early in the morning, it reminded me of the local church. I had a church. We were all gifted by God, and God gives us our gifts to make a contribution to the progress of our congregations. But in order to succeed, we've got to pull together in harmony, and that's easier said than done. Nathan, Vicki, have you witnessed local churches that found it difficult to pull together to help their churches move forward?
Vicki: Oh, yeah. There's a big church here in Dallas that split. Big church that split. It was over the issue of homosexuality. And their position is that that's wrong. And half the people wanted to stay in their denomination and correct the entire denomination, and the other half wanted to just go off onto their. Agreed with the position overall, but wanted to go off on their own. And they. They ended up unhappy with each other and in two different places.
Kent: So they agreed theologically just didn't know how to implement it.
Vicki: They could not agree.
Kent: Okay. Wow. Yeah.
Nathan: It's tragic. Yeah. Right. Now, COVID 19, that has caused so much conflict in churches and so many of my colleagues, I talk with them and usually when I talk to them, it is about the conflict that COVID 19 has caused within their churches and even amongst their leaders.
Kent: What kind of conflicts do you have? Like face masks.
Nathan: Yeah. Implementation. What precautions we should have if we should be meeting, if we should not be meeting. If we do meet, how do we meet? What safety precautions to follow or not follow. I was talking to a guy the other day. He said that their church had like name tags that everyone had to put on. I want to hug. I don't want to hug. I want a handshake. I don't want a handshake.
Kent: Please stay away from me.
Nathan: Please don't say. I mean, it was incredible. And you had to do this whole thing in order to follow the church. It has caused a lot of ugly division in the church.
Kent: Wow. Yeah. And you would think that since all Christians call God Father and church members are brothers and sisters in Christ, that we'd all live in happy harmony. Instead, what you're describing sounds a bit like the squabbling of a large family at the end of a hot 10 hour road trip.
Nathan: Yep.
Kent: In your experience, what have been some of the causes of these ministry? Stopping fights, face masks.
Nathan: It really is. It is incredible how much that has divided people. But sometimes there are, you know, minor, minor theological issues or major theological issues that cause them. But typically what I've seen, at least in my time in ministry, it has been interpersonal conflict. It has been the not a sinful direction the church wants to go and some other person within the church doesn't want to go in that direction. Or someone got a. A position of prestige and someone's not happy about it. And it boils over into interpersonal conflict.
Kent: Yeah. Yeah. I remember back in the day when I was so bold as a obviously younger pastor to introduce drums into the morning service.
Vicki: Oh, music is huge. What happened?
Kent: Oh, yeah. Oh, well, you know, God is obviously offended. What happens drums in the morning service. He's a little laxer. I understood in the evening service they didn't really care about that. But the morning. Oh, it was a huge deal. I mean, you know, we were compromising. It's of the devil. Seems crazy now, but that, you know. Anyway, music issues. Things pop up all the time. Church fights may be common, but certainly they're not new. James speaks about them in James Chapter four. And given the background of this letter, that conflict is almost inevitable. I mean, you remember back in chapter one, as the letter begins, James is writing to the 12 tribes scattered among the nations. So these early Jewish Christian converts had been persecuted for their faith, forced to leave their homes, businesses, and friends. They would have packed in the night, whatever they could carry, and run for safety. They were refugees. Imagine the pressure they would be facing not knowing when they would have the necessities of life or be forced to run for their lives again. And all that because of their faith. Uncertainty always brings anxiety, and anxiety breeds interpersonal conflict. Haven't we just been saying that about COVID 19? I mean, you get all kinds of interpersonal conflict during times of high stress like these, right?
Nathan: Absolutely. Of course you do. I'm at my worst when I'm most stressed out.
Vicki: I don't know anybody who isn't.
Kent: Yeah, it's true. And when you think of the stress that they're under, this is an enormous breeding ground for difficulties and conflict. In this letter, James began to help these struggling saints by reframing their perspective on life. He began back in chapter one, telling them, don't worry, God still loves you. Then he encouraged individuals to take sin seriously, because when we're under stress, we're in the danger zone, and tough times can tempt us to cut ethical corners. Then, starting in chapter two, we had strong words for the church leadership. He told them to treat people equally, regardless of their financial status, and to make sure their congregation had good Bible teaching. But now in chapter four, James turns his attention to the entire congregation, and he begins to address the elephant in the room, the conflict that was rising because of the pressure that they were under. Notice how he begins in chapter four, verse one, what causes fights and quarrels among you? Notice he starts with a question. What causes fights and quarrels? What's the cause, the source of your church conflict? I found it interesting to note that the word translated there as fights is used in the book of Revelation 20, when Satan will be released from his millennial imprisonment and will gather followers from the four corners of the earth and launch a final vicious, climactic battle, attack against the people of God. That is what's being described as happening within the church. It's a vicious, angry, almost satanic attack. There's fighting going on. And then he says, quarrels. What causes fights and quarrels among you? That word quarrels means serious conflict, intensive, bitter, and it can be either physical or non physical. I mean, this is quite the thing. This sounds to Me like cage fighting. This is mixed martial arts going on here. People are really going at it. They're being serious. This is not just a mild disagreement. They're not only fighting or quarreling. They're fighting and quarreling. I mean, the repetition is telling and scary. Guys, what do you think this would have looked like in real life? Probably not fisticuffs. At least I hope it wasn't. But what did it look like, do you think?
Nathan: Malicious gossip. They're using the tried and true. You know, everyone's sane. You know, I heard someone say about this, and maybe they're using the. The fantastic prayer gossip line.
Vicki: I knew that was going to come up. Well, I think we should pray it out. Yeah, right.
Nathan: You know, some people want to be on the prayer list so they can find out the latest church gossip and use it as a gossip chain.
Kent: Yeah, yeah.
Nathan: Or pray for Sally. You know, her marriage isn't doing that well, I hear.
Kent: Here's our prayer request. We need to be praying for the following people for the things that they are doing. My interest in more is telling you what they're doing rather than praying, but that's at least my excuse. Yeah. So the fights may be as old as church history, but the weapons have not changed. We read in verse 11, brothers and sisters, James says, do not slander one another. The weapon of choice then and is now was words. The word slander means to speak against, to falsely accuse, to speak evil of, to blaspheme. In fact, it's used in the New Testament to refer to the false accusations that non Christians would make against Christians. Blatant lies. Nathan, do you remember what some of those false accusations against Christians were?
Nathan: Oh, yeah. They would call them incestuous because Christians called everyone brother and sister. And so they said they were incestuous. Yeah, they said they were cannibals because of the Lord's Supper and when they took communion, they were eating the body and the blood of Christ. They called them liberals because Christians taught and believed that women were of equal value in God's sight, equally made in God's image, and equally had access to the salvation of the Lord Jesus Christ. And so they said they were liberals and upending the entire culture. In fact, they were liberals because they thought slaves were persons who were also made in the image of God, also had equal access to God through the blood of Jesus Christ.
Brian: Wow.
Kent: Well, the same kind of weapons are used today. Not those same accusations, but other accusations. And they hurt when false accusations are made against another Christian. Words are powerful and can Be dangerous weapons when used inappropriately. That's why God told Moses to tell Israel in Deuteronomy, do not go about spreading slander among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am the Lord. No slander can wound a person's spirit, kill their opportunity for influence in ministry. Because even if it's just a false, crazy accusation like some of those that you mentioned that people had made against the church itself, Nathan, in days past, even if it's just absolutely false, people believe that old trope, where there's smoke, there's fire. But that's not true. Where there's smoke, there can be just smoke. And when people blow smoke, when they make unsubstantiated accusations in someone else's direction, well, not only does it hurt the person they're slandering, but it reveals more about the accusers than the accused, I mean. Vicki, would you mind reading chapter four, verses one to three?
Vicki: Yeah, I'd be glad to. It says, what causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you? You desire but do not have, so you kill, you covet, but you cannot get what you want. So you quarrel and you fight. You do not have because you do not ask God when you ask. You do not receive because you ask with the wrong motives that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
Kent: When people falsely accuse their brothers or sisters in Christ, as we mentioned earlier, I think they do so trying to paper over their actions with words like, well, I only say this because I want our church to move forward, or I appreciate my brother's desire for ministry, but it's the wrong strategy. They don't understand the history of our church, or that's not how we do things around here, or they didn't follow policy, or it's not a good use of the Lord's money, which, by the way, was an accusation Judas made against Jesus when he was anointed with expensive perfume. But whatever their stated reasons, when fights break out in the church, it always starts with vicious, untrue, or half true accusations presented by the accusers in a way that make them appearing to be on the side of the angels while the other person is possessed by the devil. I mean, wouldn't you agree? Don't you see that in church strife situations?
Nathan: Absolutely. Absolutely. And typically it always comes anonymously. If someone is bold enough to approach the problem, they will say, you know, everyone is saying, or you know, people are saying this, or, you know, so many People have a problem with this decision the church has made or this direction or this person or this leader. It's never direct. I should say most often it's indirect.
Kent: What's interesting is that James says when people make those kinds of accusations and slander, they reveal their own poor motivation. Look at that passage that Vicki just read for us. What causes fights and quarrels? Don't they come from your desires, that battle within you? You desire, but you do not have. So you kill, you covet, but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. The impetus behind slanderous accusations is selfishness. It is pride. It is wanting to have something we can't have. And so we attack others in order to meet that need we feel within ourselves. And this selfishness affects our relationship with God. He says that when you ask, you do not receive because you ask with the wrong motive, so you may spend what you get on your own pleasures. Now, if you're involved in church fighting that selfishness that is causing, that prevents you from praying properly, you can't pray. Hallowed be God's name, because you want your name to be hallowed. You can't pray for his kingdom to really come because you want yours to expand, or for his will to be done, because you want to impose your will on what's going on. Why can't we get along as Christians, even though we're following the Prince of Peace? It's selfishness. To me, I see a parallel between this and what happened in Genesis 4, the sin of Cain. Cain was guilty of spiritual jealousy. God looked with favor at his brother Abel's offering, and his spiritual jealousy made him very angry. And although God warned him that sin was crouching at his door, his emotions got the better of him and he murdered his brother. While Cain gave in to his spiritual jealousy by murdering his brother. We are equally guilty when we kill a brother or sister's reputation, injure their ministry with our tongues. The irony here is that we saw James telling preachers the secret to helpful preaching was their heart, because it's out of their heart the mouth speaks. He told them that in chapter three, verses 14 and 16, when he said to those preachers, if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambitions in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. Here James is saying, what is true in the pulpit is also true in the pew. If you're furious at your brother or sister in Christ, if you're thinking that you are advancing the cause of Christ by letting people know the truth about what is really going on in the church. If you find it difficult to keep quiet about dangerous people in the church, James rebukes us when he says in verses one and two, what causes fights and quarrels? They come from your desires, that battle within you, you desire but do not have, so you kill. As we've said before, something's not true because it's in the Bible. It's in the Bible because it's true. In your years in the church, what have you seen to be the consequences of fights and quarreling among the people of God?
Nathan: When there is conflict, absolutely nothing of value happens in the church. You think about it, if there was a fire in the middle of the sanctuary on Sunday morning, the sermon's not being preached, you have to put the fire out. If you have a constant quarreling, the church is not going to be on mission. They're not going to be reaching out. They're not going to be evangelizing, they're not going to be doing missions. They're not serving their neighbors because they have to spend their time and energy on putting the quarrel out, on stopping the quarrel, on stopping the fighting. You know, Ken, the thing I've found that's very useful when there are slanderous accusations coming around is I ask for names. I ask for names. If someone comes up and says, you know, everyone's saying. And I'll say, oh, who's saying that? And if they won't tell me, I won't listen, I'll tell them. If you don't have names, then I'm not going to listen. Or if they do tell me, well, I heard Jerry said this. I will take my cell phone out and I will call Jerry and put him on speakerphone and say, hey, you know, Susie over here, she's saying this. And Jerry's like, oh, I didn't. And the amazing thing is they will never do that again because you've called them out on their sin. Instead of playing this, this kind of backhanded, slanderous thing behind the scenes, it's like, let's bring everything to light and deal with this right up front. And it's amazing how either people will leave the church because, you know, they know they won't get away with that. But more often than not, they never do it again because they realize, oh, wait a minute, this is a terrible way to try and get what I want because I'm going to get called to the mat for it.
Vicki: I wonder the effect that it would have on children. I don't have children, but I mentioned a week ago, or maybe it was a week before that on this, when we were discussing this series, that I greatly benefited because I had such godly Sunday school teachers and I would watch the people in my church, just as all kids do. That's how you learn how to be. And if I thought people in my church or quarreling and arguing that that would affect me.
Kent: Yeah, yeah. It can have a devastating effect that can, that can separate a person from the, the work of God. This kind of quarreling and fighting that James is talking about is not new, but it does flare up during times of great pressure, like we're under right now with COVID 19 and all the. The social, economic, political fallout that that has brought with it. And in the midst of all that pressure, it's easy to lash out even within the church and even at fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. The lie of Satan is that when you do you think that your slander is actually doing good? The lie of Satan is that when you're involved in a fight, you're helping the church. But James says no. The source of church conflict is selfishness, not the desire for holiness. And our fighting and quarreling will never help the cause of Christ. Instead, we harm it. I think we need to read again Paul's words to the Galatian Christians when he says in Galatians 5 the acts of the flesh are obvious. Hatred, discourse, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissension, factions, and envy. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. And against such things there is no law. Could we pass a law that that would represent us, that the fruit of the Spirit would be found this week as we relate to our brothers and sisters in Christ? That, my friend, could be a fire extinguisher to the conflict that we see around us among the people of God.
Brian: If you find yourself in conflict in the church, James would counsel you to ask, am I part of the problem or part of the cure? James would have us make sure that selfishness is not the driving force of our church experience, but rather that we love one another. I trust that today's discussion of God's Word has been helpful and served as an encouragement to not just be hearers of the Word, but doers. Together, let's bring God's Word to life, to our lives. This week the crosstalk Podcast is a production of crosstalk Podcast Global Equipping Biblical Communicators so every culture hears God's voice. To find out more or to support the work of this Ministry, please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org. you can also support this show by sharing it on social media and telling your friends. Be sure to join us.