What does virtue look like in everyday life?
Text: Proverbs 31
Hosts:
Tim DeFor
Vicki Hitzges
Nathan Norman
Narrator: Brian French
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2026 CrossTalk Global
Brian: To be virtuous is to be a person of good character. But what does that look like in action, in everyday life? As we conclude the book of Proverbs, We examine what living virtuously looks like in the 21st century. Welcome to Crosstalk, a Christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible, but to take the next step beyond information into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life—into all our lives. I'm Brian French. Today, while Dr. Kent is in Kenya teaching with a team of Crosstalk instructors, Vicki Hitzges, Nathan Norman, and Tim Dufour continue our journey through Proverbs. If you have a Bible handy, turn to Proverbs chapter 31 as we join their discussion.
Vicki: A few weeks ago, I was invited to be a guest on KLIF in Dallas on a program called The Weekend Workout. And the host asked me to come on and motivate his audience to stick to their diet and their workout program. And so to prepare for it, I did an informal survey, and I went and I asked as many friends as I could, "Do you ever take pictures of models or movie stars, somebody that you want to look like, and tape their picture to your refrigerator so when you're tempted to grab for the hot fudge, you think, 'No, I want to look like that'?" And all my friends said the exact same thing. They said, not just no, but no, absolutely not, which really surprised me. And I said, why? And they said, because those people are perfect. They have a 1 to 5% chance of having a perfect body like that. They have stylists, they've been Photoshopped, they have great lighting, they have dentists, they've got— and they just went through this whole thing. And they said, I could do nothing but eat celery all day long, I'm never going to look like that. So I find that that doesn't motivate me. It frustrates me. Wow. Yeah. I think there's a woman in the Bible like that. In fact, if I just tell you where she is in the Bible, you'll know who I'm talking about. Proverbs 31.
Nathan: Mm-hmm. Right. I had somebody in my previous church. She said, I hate that woman.
Vicki: Yeah. Yeah. And I think most people feel that way about her because they feel like compared to her, they can never measure up. She cooks like like Julia Child, she sews like Donna Karan, she handles real estate like Barbara Corcoran, she keeps house like Martha Stewart, she's wise and kind like Mother Teresa. And I mean, I'm sorry, but that's pretty tough standard right there. But let me remind you of two things. First of all, the purpose of this chapter showing us this Proverbs 31 woman is not to frustrate us. It's to give us an example because it shows us how we act and behave when we display virtue and wisdom. And then secondly, you'll be glad to hear this, the woman in Proverbs 31 didn't ever really exist. All throughout Proverbs, the writer is telling his son how to live a wise, virtuous life. And then in the final chapter, the writer imagines a person—in this case, it happens to be a woman—but he imagines a person who has all of the characteristics of wisdom and virtue wrapped up in a single person. And when I read through Proverbs 31, the woman—even though it was an Old Testament character— It didn't seem long ago and far away. When I read through it, it reminded me of my mother. I got glimpses of her. Now, my mother was not an ideal, and she'd be the first person to tell you that. But in a lot of ways, she was a very godly woman, and she was loving and kind, and she came close. So, I'd like to tell you about Proverbs 31. And to do that, I'd like to illustrate it with my mother's life. But before we begin, let me point something out to you. If you read Proverbs 31, you might think that the person who wrote it has ADD or something, because it hops all over the place. For example, Nathan, read Proverbs 31:22. It says, "She makes coverings for her bed.
Nathan: She is clothed in fine linen and purple." OK, that's verse 22.
Vicki: He's talking about her clothes and how she sews for the bedroom. She's good with the needle and thread. In the very next verse, he writes about her husband. And then in the next verse, he's talking about her linen clothes again. And it's not because the guy can't hold a thought, but you might think so because he's supposed to be wise. The reason is this chapter was written as an acrostic. And if you don't remember that word from high school, an acrostic is something that's written A, B, C, D, E. And in Hebrew, every letter of each succeeding verse starts the verse. So the first verse is the Hebrew letter A. The next verse starts with the Hebrew letter B, and the third, the Hebrew letter C, and so on. It's like the song, "L is for the way you look." "Get me, oh, the only one I see." V is very, very— I won't put you through more of that. But the thoughts aren't logical so much as they just go with the alphabet. And in this case, it's the Hebrew alphabet. It's an acrostic. As I look through the characteristics of this woman, it seems to me that you can lump everything, all of her wisdom, all of her virtue under one of 5 categories. First of all, it says she— and you may read it, by the way, and come up with maybe 3 categories or 6 categories. But when I read it, I think you can divide it into 5 categories. And I'm going to tell you what they are. First of all, this wise virtuous woman meets the needs of her family. She cares for and takes care of her husband, her children, and herself. For example, Tim, would you please read verse 27?
Tim: Sure. She watches over the affairs of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness.
Vicki: It says right there, she watches over the affairs of her household. And Nathan, read verses 11 and 12.
Nathan: Her husband has full confidence in her and lacks nothing of value. She brings him good, not harm, all the days of her life.
Vicki: So one of the ways this woman displays wisdom is she watches over the affairs of her household. My mother did that. My mother kept a clean house. She had it professionally decorated. It was always bright. I can't even imagine walking into my mother's home and having it be dirty, needing to be vacuumed, having dishes piled up in the sink, the beds unmade. Anytime you went to my home, my mother looked attractive. She had makeup on, she was dressed, and her house was spotless. And beyond that, I could come home, like when I lived out of town, I could drive home from college or fly to my parents' house in another city. I'd open the door and no matter where my mother was in the house, she would get up and she'd come to the door and she'd say, "Oh, Vicki, I'm so glad to see you." And if I brought you, Nathan, or you, Tim, with me, but I didn't tell her I was going to bring anybody, that would never ruffle her. She'd go, "Oh, I'm so glad to see you. I bet you guys are hungry, aren't you?" And then she'd go in the kitchen and she'd make a fruit plate. That was my mother. My mother's mother died from cancer, and she had a horrible, awful death, just awful death. And my parents moved her to their home in Denver and put her in the den so she could be in the center of things and not be stuck off in a bedroom somewhere. But it was a grueling death. In Colorado, Colorado pays for home healthcare. And the nurses would come to my mother's house. Now, my grandmother was losing her mind. She had a broken leg. She'd forget her leg was broken when she had to go to the bathroom. She'd want to get up and go and forget she couldn't. She'd soil the beds. I mean, it was, it was grueling. But the nurses all said the same thing. We love to come to your house because it's always so cheerful here. My mother looked out for her household. She cared for the people in the house. She also gave us a way to feel love for each other. For example, my mother deeply respected my father. And one day I came home unannounced to surprise them, and he was going to take my mother with him to a speaking engagement he really didn't want, but he took it so they could drive together from Pennsylvania up to Maine. And then I showed up and my mother didn't want to leave me there, which she could have, but she didn't want to. So my dad was leaving and it was early in the morning. My mother had gotten up at 5:30 to make him a hot breakfast and I heard them. So I got up and went upstairs and my dad was walking out the door and my mother watched him go and she said to me, "Vicki, there goes the finest man." God ever made. And my brother and I feel that way about my dad, partly because my mother did. My mother also developed a love between me and my brother. She would tuck me in at night, and then she would say to me, "You love your brother, don't you?" And I'd say, "Yeah, I guess so." And she'd say, "How come?" And then she'd, you know, goad me into saying something nice about him. And then she'd say prayers with me, kiss me and go through the joint bathroom and say, "Tori, guess what Vicki just said about you?" And then she'd tell him, and then she'd say, "You love your sister too, don't you?" And he'd go, "Yeah." And she'd say, "How come?" And then he'd come up with some stuff. And then she'd kiss him and just say prayers and come back into my room and say, "Vicki, are you asleep?" And I'd say, "No." And she'd say, "Guess what Tori just said about you?" So I grew up adoring my brother. And it's largely because my mother looked after the affairs of her household. Second thing, second characteristic, she not only looks after the affairs of the people in her home, but she also looks out for the affairs of people outside of her home. Especially the needy. Nathan, read us Proverbs 31, verse 15.
Nathan: It says, she gets up while it is still dark. She provides food for her family and portions for her servant girls.
Vicki: And Tim, read us verse 20, please.
Tim: She opens her arms to the poor and extends her hands to the needy.
Vicki: My mother did that when she had people in her circle, as we all do, who were in need, she couldn't not help them. We had a maid early on, and she had a gaggle of kids, and her husband was in prison. And the prevailing wisdom is don't get to be buddies with your maid because they'll take advantage of you and they'll want the blah, blah, blah. My mother didn't. She listened. She cared. If she could help in any way financially, spiritually, emotionally, she would. And her maid loved her. She had a maid later in life who was an angry woman and not a Christian. And really, long story short, she ended up giving her life to Christ because of my mother's influence. My mom had a single hairdresser. Same thing, my mother led her to the Lord. And then she had an angry Jewish neighbor across the street who was a widow. And she was bright and talented, but she was just in a bad place in life, and she was angry. But my mom would not give up on her, and she loved her and cared for her and brought her things. And she ended up giving her life to Christ because of my mother, because she cared for people outside of her house, especially the needy. Third characteristic: Not only does she look to the needs of her home and look to people outside of her home, especially the needy, but she also plans ahead and makes good use of her time. Nathan, read us verse 21, if you would.
Nathan: When it snows, she has no fear for her household, for all of them are clothed in scarlet.
Vicki: And Tim, verse 25.
Tim: She is clothed with strength and dignity and can laugh at the days to come.
Vicki: You know, when you're young, you don't even think about the days to come. And if you do, you don't worry much about them. And then as you get older, you think, "Oh no, the future's coming." Well, my mother prepared, and she did it in several ways. She did it by staying healthy. She was a horrible cook. Now, she didn't think that, but she was, because she didn't use butter or sugar. Oh. She made something out of chocolate. She didn't use chocolate, she used carob. She was a horrible cook. If I wanted to lose weight, I'd go home and eat my mother's cooking. She was an awful cook. But she did everything she knew to do to stay healthy. She'd eat 5, 6, 7 servings of fruits and vegetables a day, no sugar, no fat. She worked out every day. She took calcium to keep her bones strong, estrogen to keep from erupting into flames. I mean, whatever it— and she was healthy. She was also gorgeous. In fact, one of my husband's friends called her the Fox. She took care of herself for the future. Another way she did it is when she was— I was thinking about this the other day— about my age now, she looked into retirement communities because she had taken care of my father's father when he got old, and her mother when she got old, and she didn't want to put me or my brother through that. So she looked all over the country for a good place, and what she wanted was a place they could live independently and then get assisted care when they needed it, and then get long-term care should that happen. And she found a wonderful place in Pennsylvania. It was in the middle of Amish country. Most of the people that work there were Mennonite. They were Christians, and they cared about the people that lived there. And she did all that just to plan for the future so my brother and I wouldn't have to take care of them. But we would have because we saw them, my parents, care for their parents. Another way they planned for the future: my mother and dad got a will and a trust. And I'm telling you, if you can hear me, Get a will and a trust. It's one thing to lose somebody that you love, but if you lose them and their affairs are all out of order, man, that is a pain. But they didn't do that. They got their affairs in order. And my dad sat us down one day and said, Vicki, this is what your mother and I have decided to do. We're going to leave you a third of our money and Tori a third of our money. And the Lord a third of our money. And we knew that what he wanted us to do was invest after they were gone. When they died, that's not what they did. They left half to Tori and half to me. But they had talked to us so many times that we knew that we were supposed to give Yeah, what amounted to a third to the Lord. And so I support this ministry. I support Crosstalk. I support my church. I support an evangelistic organization. When people are in need, I have money to give. My dad was— and I love to picture my parents going to heaven and having all these people that they had given money to welcome them when they got there. And then now, as people die, who their money still goes to, and they've gotten saved, when they get to heaven and go, "Oh, oh, I know about you." My dad used to say, "You can't take it with you, but if you invest your money wisely, it's possible to send it on ahead." Fourth characteristic: she cares about the affairs of her household. She cares for those outside of her household, especially the needy. She plans for the future. She also has a skill for living. Nathan, read us verse 16, please.
Nathan: She considers a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.
Vicki: And Tim, verse 26.
Tim: She speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
Vicki: A wise woman has a skill for living. It doesn't matter if she's working or speaking, you can tell She fears and loves the Lord. I told you my mother wasn't perfect right up front. And I also told you that this woman was an ideal, although she didn't exist. My mother wasn't perfect in that, for example, she had a terrible memory. When I was a kid, I was about 10 and my mother would have been in her early 30s. I can remember saying to my mother, You don't remember that? And it didn't get any better. It got worse and worse and worse and worse. And so she compensated. And what she did is she left notes all over the house. They had 4 phones. There were notes by every single one of the phones. There were notes on her stairs. There were notes taped to the bathroom mirror. There were notes on the front door. There were notes in my mother's purse, on her car dashboard. She couldn't remember anything. So she wrote every single thing down. Now, the good side of that is, in addition to everything my mother forgot, is all the things she chose to forget. If somebody hurt her feelings, slights, insults, and sensitive remarks, she had a forgetful forgiving heart. Zig Ziglar, the motivational teacher, used to say, "The person who can't remember is infinitely better off than the person who can't forget." Wow. I'll give you a small example. Years ago, I was invited to speak to the women at Gordon-Conwell Seminary when my father, Haddon Robinson, was president there. And they had an amazing board. Mary Rockefeller was on the board. Oh, I can't even remember all the names, but huge names. The dean was there. The faculty was there. All the female students were there. So they invited me to come speak to them. While I was speaking, I mentioned what a terrible cook my mother was. Now, I've already told you she didn't think she was a terrible cook. She was wrong. She didn't think so. And the ladies started laughing. And the more they started to laugh, the more I got into it. So I just went on and on and on. And I was telling them all about— and I said, "The only time, there's one meal all year that's good. Christmas morning, she makes a coffee cake and she uses sugar and butter. She puts brown sugar on it. She puts pecans and cereals to make a crunchy topping." Every other meal she makes is lousy. And I looked over at my mother and I thought, my mother doesn't think she's a bad cook. And these are people who respect her. They're people in ministry. And women in ministry show their love largely by cooking. And I'm putting my mother down. So I quit and kept, you know, went on with my talk. When it was over, What my mother said to me was, "Vicki, that was wonderful." If I hurt her feelings, she didn't mention it. And the next morning when I got up, she had gotten up early and made me a coffee cake, that wonderful Christmas coffee cake, because she chose to forget. I also picture my mother An important way to show that you're wise is that you love and fear the Lord. And when I picture my mother, I picture her either in Dallas lying on her bed with her Bible and her Sunday school lesson, or in their house in Denver, or in Pennsylvania. She bought a cute little sofa and put it in her office, and she'd get on her knees, and she put her Bible on the sofa seat, and she would read and pray. And that's my most common memory of my mother is her praying and loving the Lord. The Proverbs woman watches over the affairs of her household. She looks out for people outside of her household, especially the needy. She prepares for the future. Because she's wise, she demonstrates a skill for living. And then the fifth thing is, as a result, she's worthy of praise. Nathan, read us verses 28 and 29.
Nathan: Gladly. Her children rise up and call her blessed. Her husband also, and he praises her. Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all.
Vicki: I used to have a Bible study teacher, and she said, "When you are old, your children will rise up and call you blessed. Until then, they'll just rise up and call you." My father and I were always in the habit, whenever I went home— home was their house, wherever it was— we'd walk together after dinner. And I remember many times him telling me, how outstanding he thought my mother was. But I remember once in particular him telling me how he thought my mother was going to be rewarded in heaven compared to him. And he was always the one everybody made over because he was such a wonderful, godly man. And he said to me, Vicki, I think your mother is the most remarkable woman I have ever known. And I was in my 30s or 40s at that time. And even at that age, Hearing my dad praise my mother made me feel secure. It's good for children to hear their fathers praise their mothers. It's also nice to hear children praise their mothers. My brother Torrey grew up to be a pastor, and he wrote my mother a letter years ago for Mother's Day. And I won't read you the whole letter, but I'll read you the first and the last paragraph. May 13th, 1989. Dear Mom, on this Mother's Day 1989, I want to thank you for my faith. I am confident that you own nothing in this world of greater value to you than your faith in Christ, and there's nothing more important to you than knowing, now that Vicki and I are grown, that through your own choices, your faith has become ours. And that's why I write you, to thank you for my faith. And then he went on and he developed that. And then the last paragraph he wrote, "So thank you, Mom, for my faith, for the things that you did deliberately to influence me, and for those things that influenced me precisely because they were not deliberate. Thanks. I know that at least in part the seed of faith was planted in my life because of the beautiful fruit faith produced in yours. All my love, Torrey. Wow. And then the chapter ends almost with a command in verses 30 and 31. Tim, would you read those? Sure.
Tim: Charm is deceptive and beauty is fleeting, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised. Give her the reward she has earned, and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.
Vicki: A woman who fears the Lord is to be praised. So I thought I'd give you a challenge. When you leave today, when you turn off the podcast, as you're thinking about your own mother, if your mother's alive, call her or write her and say, "Mom, I was listening to a program on Proverbs 31." It reminded me of you, and I want to tell you why. And then tell your mother what it is about her that you admire. Now, that may not be possible. Your mother may not still be alive, or you may not have had a godly mother. You may have had a rotten mother. But all of us, everybody has qualities, some quality to be admired. And it's good to focus on that because when we focus on what's noble and good, it makes us want to be noble and good. So praise your mother. Ideally, do it in person if that's possible, or tell your spouse, tell your best friend, tell your children if your mother's no longer here, "Let me tell you what was special about my mom." Thinking about wisdom and virtue helps us strive to be wise and virtuous. So, praise your mother! Maybe someday your kids will read Proverbs 31, and as they're reading about this impossibly perfect woman, maybe they'll think, about you and the impact you had on their lives. And they'll say, "God, thank you, she was my mother," or, "God, thank you, he was my father.
Brian: Through them, you blessed me." Vicki saw 5 ways a virtuous person demonstrates wisdom and virtue. According to Proverbs 31, a wise person will watch over the affairs of their household. They'll take care of their spouse, their children, and themself. A wise person will also watch over the affairs of those outside their household, especially the needy. A wise person plans for the future. They'll demonstrate a skill for living, and a godly wise person will be worthy of praise. Remember now to commend your parent for their virtue and wisdom, because when we focus on what's noble and good, it makes us strive to be noble and good, and that's a further blessing. I trust that today's discussion of God's word has been helpful and served as an encouragement to not just be hearers of the word, but doers. Together, let's bring God's word to life, to our lives this week. The Crosstalk Podcast is a production of Crosstalk Global, equipping biblical communicators so every culture hears God's voice. To find out more about this educational nonprofit organization, please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org. Crosstalk just finished successful trainings in Bucharest, Moldova, Southern California, and Kansas this season. We're getting ready for another training in Kenya this summer and Cuba and Nepal in the fall. Help us train the next generation of biblical communicators. All you have to do is click Donate in the show notes and make a donation of any size. You can also support this show by rating it on whatever platform you're listening to us. Be sure to listen next Friday as we explore a new book of the Bible. You won't want to miss it.
Nathan: Ah, being a pastor is fun. I will figure out what you're doing here and I will write something.
Vicki: Oh, bless you for doing that. And I'll write a close to both of them and send them to you. Sounds good.
Nathan: And we will interrupt you as appropriate. And you said, I'm red with rage and Tim is orangey glad I chose orange.
Vicki: Orangey glad. Orangey glad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It also has your name, so people will be like—
Brian: Oh, well, you know.
Vicki: Just follow loosely as we go through this.
Nathan: I'm largely illiterate, so I appreciate the color coding.
Vicki: There you go. There you go. There you go.