Why shouldn't we ignore the Bible?
Text: Proverbs 29:18
Hosts:
J. Kent Edwards
Vicki Hitzges
Nathan Norman
Narrator: Brian French
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2026 CrossTalk Global
Brian: When's the last time you ignored something? Part of living in our sensory-overloaded civilization is learning to ignore unnecessary things: the phone call with the number we don't recognize, the billboards on our morning commute, the salesman at our front door, or the social media notification. When we ignore many of these occurrences, there are often positive outcomes. But if we ignore other events, there are often negative consequences. If we ignore the kitchen timer, dinner is ruined. If we ignore our calendar, we miss an important appointment or birthday. If we ignore a boss, we might get fired. But what about the Bible? What happens if we neglect the Word of God? Why do we need to stay focused on Scripture? What happens if we ignore the Bible? Welcome to Crosstalk, a Christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible but to take the next step beyond information into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life into all our lives. I'm Brian French. Today, while Dr. Kent is in Kenya teaching with a team of Crosstalk instructors, Vicky Hitzkes, Nathan Norman, and Tim Dufour continue our journey through Proverbs. If you have a Bible handy, turn to Proverbs 29:28 as we join their discussion.
Nathan: Tim, welcome back.
Tim: Well, thank you. Thank you.
Nathan: Yeah, we're excited to have you while Kent is away teaching with Crosstalk. And so we are coming towards the end of our journey through Proverbs. Obviously we didn't hit them all, but we hit some of the highlights. So before we jump into today's, uh, I wanted to ask Tim and Vicki, in what ways have you seen Christians or Christian communities ignore the Bible? Like, what are, what are ways that Christians or Christian communities can intentionally or unintentionally ignore scripture?
Vicki: You mean just not apply it to their lives? Is that what you mean?
Nathan: That's a good example.
Vicki: Yeah, well, that, that is my example. There's things we ought to do we don't do. The things we shouldn't do, we do because we ignore the Bible.
Nathan: Have you seen it intentionally done?
Vicki: Oh yeah. Usually it's intentional because we want our way, not God's way. Yeah. Or we think we do.
Tim: Yeah. Yeah. I think we are drawn to certain parts and we emphasize in our own lives and even churches the parts that might come easy or might fit our personality or our preferred perception of the world, and we ignore then the parts that we don't love. Like maybe we love the part that says have fellowship, and we enjoy our friends, and we draw close to some people, but at the same time we ignore the part of inviting more people in We might ignore the part of how giving and generosity is an antidote to maybe the materialism and greed in our life, and so we focus on certain things and we drift from others. Churches do the same thing. You know, maybe they ignore the marginalized, and maybe they ignore heavier doctrines because they're just hard to grasp. I think we all do that to some extent.
Nathan: Yeah, absolutely. What happens when we do it though, right? So what happens to either individuals or entire church communities who ignore scripture, whether intentionally or unintentionally?
Vicki: Well, there's usually a consequence. If we're sinning, there's usually a negative consequence. The result of sin is usually not a good thing. I might say it's always a bad thing. There may be times when maybe a church doesn't embrace all the theologies might not be a bad thing. I don't put that in the same category as sin.
Tim: Yeah, you could see if a church starts moving towards what makes them feel good or align maybe with some preferences that they have, Like Vicki said, you might not focus on a theology, but you might drift away from core doctrines and then kind of lose the core of who you really are. I think if you ignore things personally like the mandate to forgive and maybe the prompting of the Spirit to forgive, I think bitterness can grow and distance and divisions can happen.
Vicki: —It's going to be negative, absolutely. I have a friend who doesn't ever witness because she'll say, "That's not my gift." And I think, well, you don't get a choice in that. Whether it's your gift or not, we should do everything. We should help. We should give. We should witness. We should— but I also know her personality, and maybe if she did witness, she wouldn't be effective at all because she— she's not winsome, you know.
Nathan: Yeah, but to, to go down a little bit of this rabbit trail here, I, I have to say, I— there have been times where I have wit— I have seen people give a terrible gospel presentation. Now the gospel was correct that they presented, but their presentation was just terrible. I've seen it large-scale church outreach. Oh my goodness, we brought this person in here, the gospel got saved anyway, right? And I've seen people like just the worst presentation, bumbling and fumbling or being antagonistic and like, oh my gosh, what's happening? And the power of the gospel still transforms lives. That's interesting. It's amazing. I— yeah, it's just unreal.
Tim: So, well, that's one of the consequences is if you ignore some of those things, you really fail to witness the power of what God can actually do. Yeah. And then we, we start to rely on ourselves. And I think all of those things are true.
Nathan: Yeah. Yes. So as we return to the Bible, we saw in ancient Israel, King Solomon knew the transformative power of the Word of God, as we've just talked about. So he gave Israel a warning and a bit of a blessing in Proverbs 29:18. Vicki, can you read it for us in the ESV version? Sure.
Vicki: It says, "Where there is no prophetic vision, the people cast off restraint." But blessed is he who keeps the law.
Nathan: Okay, this is a great translation, but we need to understand a few things. The term prophetic vision is the Hebrew word hazan, which is often used to mean a divine dream, a revelation, or an oracle. So at first glance, we might think Solomon is talking about our need to receive direct dreams or visions. But then he clarifies in the second line he's talking about the law or the Torah, the first 5 books of the Bible written by Moses. To read or hear the Torah, according to Solomon, was the same as receiving divine revelation from the mouth of God himself. So as Solomon is looking around, he sees that in individuals, families, and communities where the Torah is obeyed, there is generally long-term blessedness or, or happiness. Some translations will say happiness instead of blessedness, and that's good. It doesn't mean that the momentary happiness that we have because we got an ice cream or something, or because we're eating a candy bar. It is a long-term longevity of happiness because we are living the way God has created us to live. And Solomon would see in those places there's flourishing. But in places where the Torah is ignored or neglected, restraint is cast off. Now, that sounds kind of weird. So I like how the Christian Standard Version explains what casting off restraint looks like. Tim, you want to, you want to read the CSB version for us?
Tim: Yeah, I love this. Uh, without revelation, people run wild, but one who follows divine instruction will be happy.
Nathan: Okay, so in this proverb, you know, he has this image of like children just running wild. At my church, we just finished up Vacation Bible School, and we often have, uh, an abundance of volunteers for the kids. And, and I love it because I have been in places where you don't have enough volunteers to manage the kids, and it is utter chaos. I remember being in a principal's office one time as a parent, and the principal said to me, he said, well, you know, the reality is if the kids all decided to go crazy, there's nothing we could do. They would overrun us. Please don't repeat that to your children, he said. So without revelation, people run wild. So without the law, without the word of God, without Scripture, people go crazy. In this proverb, Solomon is telling Israel prophetic vision must not be ignored. The Torah must not be ignored because the only way to be blessed is through the restraint put on them by the law. The only way they can be happy is through that restraint put on them by the law. As Christians read this text, we understand that God has given us the fullness of his prophetic vision, not only in the Torah, but in the prophets, Prophets and Psalms and Gospels and the letters of the apostles, the entirety of the Old and New Testament. So why shouldn't we ignore the Bible? Well, because the only way to lasting happiness is through the restraint put on us by the word of God. But that term restraint has a very negative connotation in the 21st century. We restrain prisoners, we restrain our dreams, we restrain dogs in the park on leashes, right? Um, so Tim and Vicki, how can restraint be good? What examples do you have of restraint being a positive thing?
Vicki: Oh, well, this is something that comes right out of my mind, but I think about calorie control. And boy, when you've got a chocolate cake in there, the last thing you want is restraint. And yet, if you go crazy and eat cake all the time, every single time you want it, that's bad, and the consequences are bad. So restraint can be good.
Nathan: Yeah. Yeah, why do you always have to come up with a very convicting example?
Tim: Oh, there's so many experiences that we all have had of seeing people and maybe even having people in our own lives that are unrestrained. They're not able to restrain themselves from alcohol or maybe cell phones, that the lack of restraint can just cause So many problems and so many levels. Speed limits, uh, for cars going around curvy mountain roads. You might see that and say, well, that's a nice recommendation, but I can do better. But then there's a reason for that, right?
Nathan: Uh, yeah, absolutely. Well, seat belts, right? They restrain you if you are in the accident. Absolutely. Um, yeah, yeah. So changing subjects a little bit, going a little metaphorical here, um, have you or someone you love ever tried to lift something that's too heavy? And what's the result?
Vicki: I have. I've lifted weights and I hurt myself permanently doing it. I didn't lift correctly and lifted too much. And you don't want to do that.
Tim: Yeah, boy, there's so many different things that can happen. You know, you start to hurt in places that you didn't realize that you had places to hurt.
Vicki: That's true. Sometimes you can't get off the couch.
Tim: It's not just sore muscles. It could cause hernias and, and, and hurt your pride. Oh yeah, there's so many ways that doing, doing too much, uh, is not a good plan.
Nathan: Yeah, when you strain your body, it, it makes a— it, it creates a toll that damages you. I remember when I still lived in Michigan, you know, we had this long driveway and you constantly had to move snow and Well, we had a very heavy snowfall that was a wet snow, so very heavy. I remember I ran outside to just do a quick shovel and I shoveled it really quick, faster than I should have, just trying to get the job done. The next morning, which was Sunday morning, which consequently was also the morning I was reading my resignation letter to the congregation. Oh no. I was playing on the floor with the baby. No problem. Everything's fine. You know, he's a baby at that point, doesn't weigh anything. And then I just felt a little weirdness in my back. And then a little more and then a little more. And before I know it, I cannot move off the floor. I mean, I'm already dressed for church, everything's ready to go, and I cannot move without being in agony. If it was any other Sunday, I would have like just called an elder and said, you know, just do something, you know, do sing an extra song, sing a song twice and do a little devotional and we're done. I can't move. But, you know, we'd already built up everything and planned everything. Crisis counselors in place. I'm kidding. And and I, I literally— we— they, they postponed church by like 10 minutes so that I could crawl into the car and my wife could drive me. I literally crawled up the aisles and I asked one of the deacons to put a chair up there so I could sit in the chair and not move while I was doing my sermon. It was atrocious because I tried to lift all of that heavy snow beyond my means. If I'd had some restraint it wouldn't have hurt so much. Those restraints— or I wouldn't have gotten injured. Those restraints are put on us not to be a killjoy, not to, not to ruin our fun, but to protect us and to keep us safe. Vicki, what is it your father had told you that one time on the phone? We talked about it recently on an episode that God's not out to end your fun.
Vicki: He said God's not out to kill our fun. There's a reason he gives us restraints.
Nathan: Yeah, yeah, the moral teachings of the Bible aren't about ruining our fun. They're guardrails to prevent us from going over the cliff. They are weight limits to prevent us from hurting ourselves and limping through life while we're trying to do the most basic of tasks. Uh, now let's just take a pause here for a moment, and I want to mention the most popular version of this proverb. Many of you in the church world have heard this version of the proverb, but in the King James Version. Tim, go ahead and read that for us.
Tim: Okay. Yes. Where there is no vision, the people perish, but he that keepeth the law, he is happy. Okay.
Nathan: So, Vicki, have you heard this version before?
Vicki: Oh, sure. Where there is— especially the first part, where there is no vision, the people perish.
Nathan: Right, right. The second part. No, no. It's one complete proverb. It's one complete proverb. But you only hear the first part. And this is actually a really good translation of the text as well. Unfortunately, the first part of this text is often the only thing quoted without the second half, and many, not all, will use this as an explanation why a pastor or a leader's direction for a church or organization is— they won't use this word, but they kind of treat it like it's semi-divine and should be followed. Without vision, the people perish. So the reason why the church is struggling is because the pastor has not prayed enough and come up with this vision to give to the church so that that they follow it and stay hyper-focused on it and, uh, and, and follow through. And, and if it doesn't follow the pastor's vision, ah, forget it. Every church I've gone to, uh, to candidate, they're like, what's your vision for the church? What's your vision for the church? Uh, because this text has been very popular in a lot of like Christian leadership manuals. Now to be sure, organizations all need direction and strategy, but in my— they need direction, they need strategy, But in my humble opinion, churches should all have the same vision, the Great Commission. "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age," Jesus said in Matthew. But the strategy on how we accomplish this goal will vary widely from church to church, context to context. But our proverb today has nothing to do with leaders' goals, with a leader's vision, It has everything to do with God's goals for our life, his vision for our life, his revelation that he's given us through scripture. So if you come across this text in any of those leadership books or seminars or podcasts, just know that this— that's not what this text is talking about. This is talking about not ignoring the Bible, and we shouldn't ignore the Bible because the only way to lasting happiness is through the restraint put on us by the word of God. That's what this text is about. So Vicki and Tim, as we're kind of nearing the end here, let's, let's think this through and apply it to individuals and churches and individuals within churches that are having problems. So if there is an individual and they find themselves neglecting the word of God, they're kind of going astray, they're going off there. They know that they're not really paying too close attention. What would you suggest that they do? If they hear this and they're convicted by the Spirit and convicted by the Word, I need to get back on track. What would your suggestions be to them?
Vicki: Well, I think if you're convicted by the Spirit, if you realize you're not doing something, do it. For years after COVID, I didn't go to church. You know, I did this podcast, so I was getting fed here. I go to a Bible study, I was getting fed there. But the Bible says, don't neglect the gathering of the saints. And in my mind, may not be for everybody, but in my mind, that means don't neglect going to church. And so, I didn't want to. There wasn't a church I liked, blah, blah, blah. I just didn't want to. So, I prayed about it and I asked God to give me a church I would like, and in the meantime, to help me be obedient. And I went to a church or two I didn't really enjoy. But I just felt like I was being obedient. So I think we pray and say, Lord, I'm not being faithful to you. Forgive me. Help me to want to be and help me find a situation where I enjoy it. But no matter what, let me be obedient.
Nathan: Yeah, I love that. Help me to want to be obedient. Right. That's a great prayer. Because often it's like, help me be obedient. Yeah, I don't really want to, though.
Tim: They're going to want to. Yeah, no, it's—
Nathan: I love it. Thank you.
Tim: Yeah, Tim, do you have any thoughts? Yeah, for sure. If an individual, um, obviously it starts with repenting, humbly recognizing that I am not aligned with God and reconfirming to him that he's the boss and I'm not and his ways are better. And so humbly repenting, and that involves changing of behavior as well, which means taking in the Word of God, listening to it, reading it, learning it, meditating on it, seeking out and listening to faithful Bible teachers, but committing not just to take it in, but to taking the steps in the direction that would correct the path that I'm on. And not thinking that I have to have it all figured out in day one, but every day taking one more step towards what it is that his word is leading me to.
Nathan: Yeah, yeah, great. Okay, so what about churches, right? So imagine a church somehow discovers, whether it's the leadership or the church at their annual meeting, that they discover they're neglecting the word of God. Maybe it's because all their small groups are more social than they are in studying. Maybe it's the way their entire education system is. Their VBSs are more focused on fun. Their sermons are focused maybe more topically on what we think we need to hear and not necessarily what we need to hear. Maybe they're preaching through the Word and they find an area where they say, "Wow, we are doing exactly what the Bible tells us not to do here." What would your suggestions there be?
Tim: I would— one of the things I think of, it's very similar for a church and individual where you humbly repent for sure. Take it in and try to teach others how to digest it and take it in. Like you said, if you're focused away from actual Bible teaching, if your Bible studies are just popular Christian books, the how-to books, and not the Bible, get to the Bible. But I think leadership, if leadership starts coming to that conviction, I think one of the most powerful things they could do is confess to their people what they've discovered and not blame the people, but take ownership of it and saying, this is why we're moving in this new direction, because we believe this is what God is leading us toward. That could be a powerful movement of just stirring in everybody's hearts, turning people back towards God's Word.
Nathan: Good word, good word. All right, so, okay, this, this is a bit of a loaded one. Uh, lastly, what should individuals do if they find themselves in a church or Christian organization that neglects the word of God? So, you know, you're going to church, you're not in a place of leadership, you're, uh, you don't, you don't make any decisions, or you're maybe in a Christian organization and you're just finding that the way they're treating people is wrong, the way they're dealing with scripture is wrong, or they're not dealing with scripture at all. They are neglecting large areas, or they're allowing moral unrestraint to happen. What would you suggest to an individual who is going to a church that they're like, wow, I don't think they're really being biblical here?
Vicki: Well, the first thing I'd say, no matter what the situation is, pray about it. Pray about it, because the people you're going to go talk to, if indeed they are not following God's word, especially if they know to follow it, they're not in fellowship, and they're probably not going to take kindly to you bringing it up, so pray about your motives and your approach and their heart to receive it.
Tim: Yeah, that is a great answer. I can't top that, but I think the prayer is partly be the change first. Like take it seriously for yourself. Make sure that you are doing it before you just throw it all in, throw it all away, and I think it's not inappropriate to humbly express your concerns with leadership. Don't post it on Facebook. Don't rally a group. Don't gossip about it, but talk to the leadership and humbly share your concerns, and like Vicki said, seek the Spirit's guidance on how best to respond because sometimes God might want you to stay and help be part of the solution. Other times he wants you to go and be a positive influence someplace else and be fed. Yeah. So I think it's not just a, if this is, you find this, run. There's more to it than that. Yeah.
Nathan: No, I really appreciate that. Years ago I had heard somebody saying, I can't remember who it was, but they say stay as long as you have influence. Hmm. Right. So if they're listening, if they're hearing, if there's like, you know, some movement here, then yes, stay. But if you've had conversations, gentle, humble conversations, you've prayed it through, and the church is continuing to trudge towards unrestrained or unbiblical foundations, then that's probably a time to say, okay, they're not listening. It's time to go. But as Solomon said, the only way to lasting happiness is through the restraint put on us by the word of God. And so that's part of the reason, not the only reason, but in this proverb, that's why we submit. Okay, when I was a younger teenager, I don't know, like 13, 14, uh, we had a series of train derailments in the New York tri-state area, Pennsylvania and Jersey and New York. And I remember watching the news and the local news reported foul play. But the news didn't stop there, right? They said, oh, we think someone's causing these derailments on, on purpose, right? Like, oh, okay, that sounds horrible. But they didn't stop there. They told us it was really easy to intentionally derail a train. And they not only told us how to derail a train, they showed us on site with a camera crew with all the necessary tools and equipment. Oh my golly. But they not only showed us how to derail a train, they cut from the in-person demonstration to show us a detailed diagram to reinforce the lesson. I remember being a teenager laughing hysterically. My mom comes in. And she's like, why are you laughing at train derailment? I said, they just showed us 3 times how we could do this ourselves at home.
Tim: Oh, what could possibly go wrong?
Nathan: What could possibly go wrong? Today, Solomon showed us the diagram on how to derail a person, a church, or society. Ignore God's revelation or substitute a facsimile of the Word of God and people will run wild. Look, it's easy for us to get derailed by a political ideology or a charismatic personality or a teaching that scratches our itching ears. But we shouldn't ignore the Bible because the only way to lasting happiness is through the restraint put on us by the Word of God. Restraint brings long-term happiness.
Brian: When we think of restraint, We might think of handcuffs or shackles, bad things, but sometimes restraints can be good, like seat belts in an accident or exercising sugar restraints so we can look great at our high school reunion. Solomon says to follow the restraints of the Bible. That's because God's restraints are for our good, and if we follow God's restraints, we'll enjoy long-term happiness. I trust that today's discussion of God's Word has been helpful and served as an encouragement to not just be hearers of the Word, but doers. Together, let's bring God's Word to life, to our lives this week. The Crosstalk Podcast is a production of Crosstalk Global, equipping biblical communicators so every culture hears God's voice. To find out more about this educational nonprofit organization, please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org. CrossTalk just finished successful trainings in Bucharest, Moldova, Southern California, and Kansas this season. We're getting ready for another training in Kenya this summer and Cuba and Nepal in the fall. Help us train the next generation of biblical communicators. All you have to do is click "Donate" in the show notes and make a donation of any size. You can also support this show by rating it on whatever platform you're listening to us. Be sure to join us next week as we continue to learn from God's wisdom in the Book of Proverbs. You won't want to miss it.
Vicki: You should name the minor prophets. The minor prophets?
Nathan: I couldn't name them all off the top of my head. There's like Obadiah and Joel, and I thought it was like Sleepy and Dopey.
Tim: No, those Those are different kinds of miners, different kind of miners.
Nathan: Vicki, do you have anything to add on that? Nope. Edit that out.