Why discipline our children?
Text: Proverbs 13:24
Hosts:
J. Kent Edwards
Vicki Hitzges
Nathan Norman
Narrator: Brian French
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2026 CrossTalk Global
Brian: Anyone looking for a new job? If so, you may want to avoid those on a list I came across ranking the most stressful jobs in the world. Here are the top 4. Number 1 is military personnel. Soldiers have one of the most physically and emotionally demanding professions. As a result of their grueling training, long deployments, and life-threatening missions, they often struggle with PTSD. Astronauts came in second place. After years of rigorous training, these men and women face the isolation of space, the effects of zero gravity, radiation exposure, and extreme physical and emotional strain. Surgeons were also on the list. Working long shifts, often without breaks, and constantly making life-altering decisions leave them emotionally exhausted and at risk of burnout. Coming in at number 4 were prison wardens. They oversee hundreds or thousands of inmates, many of whom are violent or mentally unstable. And are required to maintain order and prevent riots while ensuring staff safety and legal compliance. While all of these jobs are stressful, there is one more category we could add to the list: parenting.
Vicki: Why?
Brian: Because few things are more disruptive than the arrival of a first child. Even with months of advance notice, few couples realize how challenging this bundle of joy will be. But they soon will. Mothers need to physically recover from childbirth and contend with hormone fluctuations, mood swings, and possibly postpartum anxiety and depression. The newborn will demand frequent feedings and constant soothing, creating a demanding around-the-clock cycle that makes sleep and clear thinking almost impossible. Don't forget the social impact. Suddenly, seemingly routine activities such as going to church or grocery shopping require far more planning, time, and energy than before. Spontaneity? It's impossible. But if you think babies are difficult, wait until they start growing up. The only thing more challenging than willful toddlers is the terrible teens. Children may be a blessing from the Lord, but raising them is perhaps the most important and stressful job we will face in life. If you are a parent or know someone who is, keep listening because Vicki Hitzkes, Nathan Norman, and Kent Edwards are about to give you 100% guaranteed, time-tested and biblically based parenting advice by unpacking one of the most famous proverbs Solomon ever wrote, Proverbs chapter 13, verse 24. Welcome to Crosstalk, a Christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible but to take the next step beyond information into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life into all our lives. I'm Brian French. Today, Dr. Kent Edwards, Vicki Hitzkes, and Nathan Norman continue their discussion in the book of Proverbs. If you have a Bible handy, turn to Proverbs 13:24 as we join their discussion.
Kent: So after Brian's introduction, does anyone here think parenting is easy?
Vicki: Oh no, I know. I'm not a mother, but I remember when I was a kid saying to my dad, "The only reason you had us is so that you could get free maid service on Friday afternoons." And he was saying, "Well, that was the worst deal I ever made." Oh my goodness.
Kent: Yeah. Yeah.
Nathan (Redacted ;): I want my name taken off this podcast because in that introduction, 100% guaranteed. Oh no, no. I don't have it all figured out.
Kent: No, parenting is not easy. But is it important?
Vicki: Oh, probably no job is more important because you're raising future generations. You're raising your children.
Kent: Mm-hmm.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Yeah, it's absolutely important. And you are trying to disciple your kids, for lack of a better term, to be the best version of themselves they can possibly be in Christ.
Vicki: Absolutely.
Nathan (Redacted ;): And that's hard. It's really hard to know when to navigate, when to when to step in, when to let them struggle, when to correct, and when to let them flounder and suffer under the consequences of their own actions. It, it's incredibly hard and very frustrating because it's not like they're willful participants in this. They, they want to do what they want to do, and they know better than you.
Kent: Yeah, yeah. I remember when our oldest boy Nathan was born Long story I'll cut short, but after much boasting, he was actually born on my birthday. Ah.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Oh.
Kent: Within 20 minutes, we barely made it, but he was born on my birthday.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Come on, push, Nola, push.
Kent: It was more like, don't push, don't push. I remember when the doctor asked me to cut the umbilical cord and I thought I must be hurting somebody. It was such a moving thing. And the nurse took him and wrapped him in clothes. All I could think of was, you know, Jesus being wrapped in swaddling clothes.
Vicki: Swaddling clothes.
Kent: And they handed the baby to me. My first thought was, I haven't even had a class in this. I don't know. I don't have a clue what to do here. And you're handing, like, the first moments of his life into my hands. And I turned away from people to the wall and I began to cry. I began to cry because I knew my life would never be the same.
Vicki: Oh, wow.
Kent: I thought you were going to say it the tender way.
Nathan (Redacted ;): You could take that two ways. But yeah, yeah, I think you meant it the tender way.
Kent: And I cried because God had chosen me to be primarily responsible for this baby's life. It's a responsibility that we parents don't determine how our children turn out, but we can influence it more than any other person that they will ever meet. That's an enormous responsibility. And I think that's why I come with absolute 100% confidence, unlike you, Nathan, not to my own Thoughts on child rearing or some random book I picked up, but because of Proverbs 13:24. Because God in his wisdom inspired Solomon, the wisest man that ever lived, to write these words about parenting.
Vicki: And he says, whoever spares the rod hates their children. But the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.
Kent: This is a very popular and controversial verse, isn't it?
Nathan (Redacted ;): It is because you have a certain type of person who looks at this and interprets it as saying, therefore I should beat my children and beat them into submission, literally, or or very, very aggressive or too much corporal punishment for the child. But then you will have people look at this who are against corporal punishment, things like spanking, and look at this and say, "Ah, look how terrible the Bible is. It's not even talking about spanking. It's spares the rod, like hitting a child with a rod, that's child abuse." So they'll use this text to discount scripture or to at least say, "We don't listen to all of scripture or we shouldn't listen to all of scripture." Right. There's a lot in this text that people will use. Yeah.
Kent: And it's caused a lot of confusion and disagreements. So let's try to simplify it.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Okay.
Kent: From my perspective, I think there are 3 things that Solomon in this proverb wants every parent to know. The first assumption that he's making that is obvious is that he wants every parent to know Your child is not perfect.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Have you guys ever known anyone who thought their children were perfect? Vicki, have you ever run across anybody?
Vicki: No, I certainly have not. In fact, one of my favorite authors, Prudence MacIntosh, once wrote, "Anybody who doubts the total depravity of man missed my 3-year-old's birthday party." That is brilliant and funny.
Kent: Oh, that is— That is so true, because any parent who has held their daughter in their arms right after birth, well, has probably thought she's perfect. And she probably was on the outside. But every child ever born has been born, Vicki, as your father would say, with a curvature of the soul. Every child is born with a bent towards sin. Every child has been infected with iniquity. No child is perfect. We know that because Solomon tells us that our job as parents is to— what? How does this—
Vicki: it says discipline them.
Kent: Yeah, which implies that they have failed or inadequate, or inadequate morally. Perhaps they lied. You know, the famous, "I didn't do it," when all their toys are scattered on the floor. Or maybe they've claimed innocence when they are caught holding a toy hammer and their little brother is crying and rubbing his head. Your child is not perfect. I think that's important for us to realize. No child is perfect, and we can't deceive ourselves by thinking, because my child is perfect, I can take a hands-off attitude towards my child's moral development. No, Solomon is saying to every parent, your child is not perfect, but he's also saying that your job as a parent is to push them towards perfection.
Nathan (Redacted ;): St. Augustine said we don't become sinners the moment we sin for the first time. We demonstrate that we were sinners all along when we sin, right? That, that capacity was within us, that, that, um, that inner rebellion against God and his ways, uh, comes out of us. And under— we need to understand, yeah, we need to help children to move away from that inner rebellion towards God?
Kent: Yeah, I think one of the ways that as parents we can do that is simply through instruction, because we don't know what we don't know. Our kids don't know what they don't know. We need to come and give them instruction on how to live a God-pleasing, uh, moral life. We, we realize that in the rest of life Vicki, your mother was a piano teacher. People came to her because even though they may have had some gift, they needed her help to know how to play the piano better.
Vicki: They needed— I believe you. I heard those notes pound wrong. Yeah, they needed instruction.
Kent: As we record this, the World Cup has just ended. And what struck me, one of the things was the number of coaches on the sidelines. Every player needs to be coached. Our children, need to be coached morally. And Solomon was all over this in Proverbs 1-3, wasn't he?
Vicki: He says, "Listen to your father's instruction and do not forsake your mother's teaching. My son, if you accept my words, you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God. For the Lord gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding." He holds success in store for the upright. Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men. Wisdom will save you also from the adulterous woman. My son, do not forget my teaching, for they will prolong your life many years and bring you peace and prosperity. The first verse I ever learned, trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. But in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.
Kent: What a call for wisdom. What an importance these verses put on the importance of parents to instruct their children, because children need this instruction or they will fail in life. Lean not on your own understanding. The fact is that our inclination, as we've seen, is towards sin. Every time we choose to sin, we think God's commands are wrong. When God says, "Do not steal," we say to ourselves sometimes, "Yeah, well, this won't hurt. Life will actually be better if I choose to steal." If He says, "Do not lie," we say, "Yeah, but I don't want my boss to know this and that would hurt me professionally. Really, I'll be better off if I ignore God's command." and lie. As Satan said to Adam and Eve, you know, God is not telling the truth. The opposite of what he told you is actually true. So Satan does for us. And so in these opening verses you just read, these are the words of a father pleading for a son to listen to his parents because he knows, as we do, that our child's moral compass is flawed. It doesn't point true north. It does not lead to a flourishing life. The assignment God has given us as parents is to recalibrate their compass, to teach them about holiness and how that holiness will lead them to success in life, to teach them how to live a God-pleasing life, because the alternative, as we all know, The wages of sin is what?
Vicki: It says it's death.
Kent: Do you guys remember times when your folks instructed you and you found it very helpful?
Vicki: Oh, that's an interesting way to end that question. And you found it very helpful. I'm sure the answer to that is yes. I won't surprise you, I was a very headstrong child. And really? I'm glad that I was instructed. I'm glad that I got spanked, and I'm glad for that.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Yeah, the hard thing with that question is I know that I had good parents, still do, and that they gave me really good instruction. It's just, it's hard to go back and to remember a specific instance. It's like asking, hey Nathan, what did your mom make you for dinner 40 years ago? And I'm like, I don't know. But you know what? I know that she did. And I know that it nourished me and I wouldn't be here today if she didn't consistently make food and make meals so that it would sustain me. I think the same thing is true for the wisdom and discipline. One thing that does come into my mind is my dad. I don't even know what the context was. I'm sure— there was some message we heard at church or there was something we were doing at youth group or whatever. And my dad had said, like, you know, people have a tendency to hyper-spiritualize everything within church and Christianity, and you need to keep a foot grounded in the real world, in reality, and make sure it's applicable and make sure that the things that they're saying aren't just theoretical. But that they're actually true in the real world that we're living in. And I mean, you could take that very negatively, but what he was saying was true. And I mean, I think kind of laid the groundwork for big idea preaching in my life because we can hyper-spiritualize every text in every situation. But then when you're sitting across from someone who is in an abusive relationship and— or you are listening listening to somebody who's grieving and they throw out something that's not theologically 100% correct. If you're just hyper-spiritualizing everything, you're going to tell the person, well, just forgive the person who abused you and move on. Or you're going to say, or you're going to go and correct the person who said, why did God kill my friend? Right? And then you're going to try and correct their theology. And that's not the right thing to do in the moment. Right? Um, it really isn't. It's to listen, it's to, to hear, it's to understand that there's nuance into life. And I— and my dad really implanted that idea that there is nuance in life, um, pretty early on, and I just really appreciate that.
Vicki: You said your folks instructed you. When I was in college, my dad was head of the preaching department at Dallas Seminary, and one day I called him And I said— he was at work. I don't know if he had a meeting. I don't have a class coming up. But I said, Daddy, Saturday night at 7 o'clock— well, I started, I said, Daddy, I know God wants me to be a virgin, but he doesn't want that as badly as I want not to be one. And so as of Saturday at about 7:30 or 8 o'clock, I'm not going to be. I'll give you 10 minutes to talk me out of it.
Kent: Wow.
Vicki: And he was so cool. He didn't yell at me. He didn't— he just— he gave me his Haddon Robinson laugh. And then he just said to me, well, let's talk about it then. I've got 10 minutes. He said, Vicki, he said, God's not out to kill your fun. And there are reasons that he would want you to stay a virgin until you got married. And he said, let me just discuss a few with you. And then he just walked me through practical reasons. And he told me later that he never told my mother that I called. And he also told me, and I'm not sure he's right, that he didn't think I was really going to go through with it or I wouldn't have called him. But I'm not sure. I'm not sure that's true. But they both want you to know he did talk me out of it. And I will say I will say at this point, I'm glad that he did. At that point, not so much. But when I hung up, I thought, "No, it's the right thing to do. I'll be obedient." Wow.
Kent: It's interesting, something similar happened to me. My father gave me instruction. He did so at the family dinner table.
Vicki: With everybody around?
Kent: Everybody was around. And Dad was just reading through Proverbs. And it was kind of just our daily devotional time. And he came to Proverbs 7, that famous passage we've looked at in the past about the wayward woman. And he started reading with some effect, "Behold, the woman dressed as a prostitute." who says, I have perfumed my bed. Come, let us take our fill of love until morning, for my husband is not at home. And with much seductive speech, she persuades him, and he follows her as an ox goes to the slaughter. Oh my, he went through that passage. I thought, man, I was so embarrassed. I couldn't look at anybody. I'm thinking, whoever talks like this? And this is found in Bible? Like, seriously, this is not French created. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure I was blushing and looking all over the place. I thought— but you know, um, I never forgot that. And the number of times I remembered that, which were valuable time, um, but it was helpful. I mean, it was just instruction, but that instruction saved me from all kinds of bad mistakes. 'Cause we don't break God's laws. God's laws break us. So, but what do we do when our children don't listen to our good instruction? Have you ever faced that, Nathan? You've given wise, wonderful, godly counsel and your kids don't obey you?
Nathan (Redacted ;): Perfect counsel.
Brian: Yes.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Yeah, yeah, they often refuse to listen because they're their own persons, because they do have a sin nature within them that is oriented towards themselves and not towards God and others, because they don't have world experience the way I do. So they doubt the consequences or the possible consequences are very abstract to them. Right. So they make other decisions.
Kent: Yeah.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Or in the moment. Right. In the moment, they're not thinking about consequences. They just act instead of thinking.
Kent: Yeah. Let's not be too hard on our kids. There's many times in all of our lives when we know what God has wanted to do and we haven't done it.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Right.
Kent: And so, like us, sometimes they refuse to do what they know they should. So what do we do then?
Vicki: Well, we just read it. It says whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them. Yeah, you know, that, that's true. I had a cousin who wasn't disciplined, and oh, her whole life was miserable. She, she didn't have discipline because her parents never instructed her. She'd get up late, she'd stay up later at night, she was heavy, she was not healthy. She— I mean, her whole life was a wreck, and it's because she was never disciplined. Discipline.
Kent: Yeah, discipline is bringing consequences to when our instruction or God's instruction is not followed. The word rod used in this verse is used of a king's scepter, the symbol of authority. But the king's rod was also used as an instrument for remedial punishment. Those found guilty of breaking laws would face physical punishment.
Vicki: Would a king take his scepter and whack them?
Kent: They faced the rod of the king.
Vicki: Wow.
Kent: Yeah, that was a symbol of physical punishment. Yes.
Vicki: Wow.
Kent: And we see that throughout the Bible, Nathan. We see that in Exodus 22, don't we?
Nathan (Redacted ;): It says, whoever steals an ox or sheep and slaughters it or sells it must pay back 5 head of cattle for the ox and 4 sheep for the sheep.
Kent: God has already told people, don't steal. Now he says, if you do, here are the consequences. They're going to be costly. God told the Northern Kingdom to repent many times or they would face God's wrath. What happened?
Vicki: They didn't do it. They ignored his warnings. And 10 tribes were destroyed by the Assyrians.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Ah, the worst of the worst. Arguably the most brutal, terrible people who've ever walked the earth. Or they're at least in the top 10.
Kent: And it's not that they didn't know what was coming. They were warned, did it anyway, and God in his righteousness and his holiness brought down the destruction that he had promised. That's not just an Old Testament thing. We see that in Revelation chapter 3 with the Church of Laodicea, don't we?
Nathan (Redacted ;): Yeah. I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other. So because You are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold. I'm about to spit you out of my mouth. Those whom I love, I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.
Kent: Kings use physical punishment to restrain evil. God does. And God tells parents to do so as well. When I was researching this passage, I came across some of Bruce Waltke's work. In his Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament. And he said about the rod mentioned here in this passage, he says, in Proverbs, the rod is the symbol of discipline, and failure to use the preventative discipline of verbal rebuke and the corrective discipline of physical punishment will end in the child's death. No, the stakes are high here, which doesn't mean that we beat our children or abuse our children or treat them unfairly. God didn't treat his people or our— us unfairly, but in his holiness and his righteousness, he told us how we should live, explained why we should do that. And when people refuse to listen and obey, they face the natural and sometimes eternal consequences of that. I've seen this work in real life. When I graduated with my Bachelor of Theology degree and immediately got married, two things happened. I escaped school, which was good, but I entered the workforce and made almost no money. I worked at a home for delinquent boys aged 12 to 16. As time went on, I was asked to run the place and realized I had no social work training at all. I mean, this was a government-funded facility with kids who were there by order of the court. These were bad dudes and they were out of control with— had bad parents. How am I supposed to control these kids? And then I realized Huh, I don't know about social work, but I know the Bible. I know God said live this way or there will be these consequences. And because he not only instructed them but followed up on his threats, yeah, some people were lost, but many were saved because they remembered the consequences that would come. So I organized the entire home around this principle. I came up with lists and said, this is behavior that is unacceptable. You can't swear, you can't get in a fight, you can't, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. We had levels 1 to 5. And every time you broke one of those, you lost points. You started with 100 every week. And if you violated these laws, you went down. And if you lost too many points, you would lose privileges. And one of the most coveted of privileges was if they were good enough to be allowed to have a weekend at home. And sometimes these guys would act out and they wouldn't earn the points they needed, and they would be furious. "How dare you keep me from seeing my parents this weekend!" And I would listen to them rant, and I would hold up the sheet and said, "Did I tell you this in advance?" Did I explain to you clearly the expectations of behavior we have for you? And they said yes. Did I explain clearly the consequences of if you broke those rules? Yes. I am very sorry that you chose deliberately not to spend this weekend with your parents. I think it hurt your parents. And it's gonna— and it's hurt you. But next week is a different week. And you know what? That changed behavior. That changed the organization. When I explained clear rules and clear consequences and we always followed through, we went from being one of the lowest-ranked homes for boys in the province of Ontario, Canada to one of the highest.
Brian: Hmm.
Kent: Not because I was an expert in social work, but I thought God was on to something here. And if it worked in the Bible, it can work today. Yeah, I know children are not perfect. And I know that as a parent, our job is to push our children towards perfection. And I will do so with instruction and with consequences where needed. But throughout this, the motivation is important. My motivation is not vengeance. My motivation must be love. We see that in this passage, don't we? It—
Vicki: well, it says the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them. And that's not always easy. I remember the first time I remember getting spanked, my mother pulling me up to her and saying 'Tell me what you did wrong.' And I told her. And she said, 'Vicki, I hate to spank you.' She said, 'This hurts me more than it hurts you,' which I thought was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard when I was 5 and tried to point that out to her. Well, then, Mom. But she spanked me.
Nathan (Redacted ;): There's a win-win scenario here, you know.
Vicki: Yeah. But she still spanked me. And then she held me close. And while I didn't I probably didn't understand all of what was going on. I knew she loved me and I knew she just did something difficult.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Yeah, I also wanted to throw in here, depending on the country you live in, depending on the community you live in, the state, there's different, you know, rules and guidelines on, on spanking. But, you know, even if you're in a place where, you know, spanking is, is not allowed, or virtually impossible. There's a lot of other kind of physical disciplines too, right? Like grounding and like you were just explaining, the natural physical consequences. No, you can't go to this even though you wanted to. No, you have to stay home.
Kent: Have a timeout. Yeah.
Nathan (Redacted ;): You're going to have to come—
Vicki: Or you can't use this technology.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Yeah, you can't use the device. You have to come along with me now. You can't stay home. Yeah, all, all of those are optional as well. And those are all physical realities that you put into, into their discipline.
Kent: In love, God has called us to love our children. We express that love physically— food, clothing, shelter. We express that love educationally. We express that love socially, emotionally. But we are also to express our love with discipline, whatever discipline that we think will best achieve the purposes our kids need in this particular situation that we face. Because whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them. Raising a child is not easy. I think Brian was right that it's one of the most stressful jobs that we can have in life, but it's also perhaps the most important task that God can give us. And we can succeed. I absolutely guarantee we have a 100% better chance of success if we follow his commands that he gave through Solomon in this passage. Recognize your child is not perfect. Imperfect parents always have imperfect children. But we can't stand by and just watch them unfold, because our job, my job, your job is to help them grow morally by living in harmony with God's word. Our job is to teach them and to motivate them while being careful that our motivation must be love, realizing that this is the only way that they will flourish. Child rearing is not easy. When it comes to child rearing, tough love is real love.
Brian: So what's the recipe for good parenting? Recognize that the only way for your children to flourish in life is to know God's laws, and then teach your children to live those laws. I trust that today's discussion of God's Word has been helpful and served as an encouragement to not just be hearers of the Word, but doers. Together, let's bring God's word to life, to our lives this week. The Crosstalk podcast is a production of Crosstalk Global, equipping biblical communicators so every culture hears God's voice. To find out more about this educational nonprofit organization, please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org. Crosstalk just finished successful trainings in Bucharest, Moldova, Southern California, and Kansas this season. And we're getting ready for another training in Kenya this summer and Cuba and Nepal in the fall. Help us train the next generation of biblical communicators. All you have to do is click donate in the show notes and make a donation of any size. You can also support this show by rating it on whatever platform you're listening to us. Be sure to listen next week as we continue to learn from God's wisdom in the book of Proverbs. You won't want to miss it.
Nathan (Redacted ;): While all of these jobs are stressful, there is one more category we could add to the list: parenting. I really didn't see that coming. I read the proverb.
Kent: I read the proverb.
Nathan (Redacted ;): I'm like, what does this have to do?
Kent: I didn't—
Nathan (Redacted ;): good job, Kent. Good job. Um, Why? Because few things are more disruptive than the arrival of a first child or a second or a third. If you are a parent or know someone who is, keep listening because Vicki Hitzkes, Nathan Norman, and Kent Edwards are about to give you 100% guaranteed, time-tested, and biblically-based parenting advice by unpacking one of the most famous proverbs Solomon ever wrote, Proverbs 13:24. Yeah, we're just going to take my name off of that one because I don't have that confidence.
Vicki: And I don't have kids.
Kent: We're getting sued.
Vicki: Yeah.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Yeah.
Vicki: That was so long. Can we cut that down? We being you?
Nathan (Redacted ;): Yeah, I'll cut some stuff out.
Vicki: Okay.
Nathan (Redacted ;): I liked how Vicki was like, man, this is redundant. And Kent was like, Yes, let me explain it even more.
Kent: Spoken like a true professor.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Oh, I wanted to point out, uh, when Matt was born and they, uh, they came and said, do you want to cut the umbilical cord? I said, is there a discount if I do it? And they said no. And then I said, well then what am I paying paid you for.
Kent: You didn't really, did you?
Nathan (Redacted ;): I absolutely did. They did it. I didn't want to do it.
Brian: No.
Kent: Oh, I didn't want to do it either, but I didn't have that presence of mind.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Oh no, no.
Kent: I was sure I was hurting somebody. I just didn't know who.
Nathan (Redacted ;): Um, you're like, this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you, I hope. No emotional desire to cut the vocal cord.