Why should God’s people remove hatred from their lives?
Text: Proverbs 10:12
Hosts:
J. Kent Edwards
Vicki Hitzges
Nathan Norman
Narrator: Brian French
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2026 CrossTalk Global
Nathan: Hi, Crosstalk listeners. You might have noticed that this week's text is the same as last week's text, Proverbs 10:12. The short version of the story is that with complex scheduling for our recording sessions, Kent and I were both writing independent scripts, and we independently chose Proverbs 10:12. When we found out what happened, we decided to— let's just go forward and record both episodes because Well, hate is a huge issue in our culture and our community right now, all around the world. And so we figured, well, we probably need to focus on this topic 2 weeks in a row. So I apologize for the mix-up, but I think you'll be blessed listening to last week's and this week's episode.
Brian: There's a moment in every conflict where something inside you says, "Enough is enough. Hit back. Match their energy. Give them exactly what they're giving you." It feels not only natural, it feels right. After all, everyone has a breaking point. And in a world where anger is currency and outrage drives outcomes, Fighting fire with fire doesn't just feel satisfying, it looks like it works. So criticism is met with criticism. Hate is answered with hate. And on the world stage, in comment sections, and across dinner tables, this is the playbook everyone seems to be running. So what is God up to when he asks his people to refuse that playbook entirely and remove hatred from their lives? Is God trying to make his people into losers? Listen in as we find the answer in the book of Proverbs. Today, while Dr. Kent is away teaching with Crosstalk, join Vicki Hitzges, Nathan Norman, and guest host Tim DeFor as they discover Solomon's insight on why not to hate in Proverbs 10:12. Welcome to Crosstalk, a Christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible but to take the next step beyond information into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life into all our lives. I'm Brian French. Today, Vicki Hitzges, Nathan Norman, and Tim DeFor continue our journey through Proverbs. If you have a Bible handy, turn to Proverbs chapter 10, verse 12, as we join their discussion.
Nathan: Okay, Vicki and Tim, welcome back. Let's just jump right into it with the hard questions based on Brian's trailer. Who do Christians hate? I mean, really think about that. Let's be honest with ourselves. We hate people. And if you can't think of people that we hate, who would people say that Christians hate?
Tim: That's a lot easier to answer. Yeah, we would hope that Christians don't hate anybody, but I think different Christians have different, different people groups that perhaps they either have a great disdain for, or at least that's the perception. So yeah, that's a good one. Well, I think of people that I know that I think the long acronym now is LGBTQIA2S+. I mean, it's getting longer. It's getting longer. But I know people that would identify in that people group, and they assume that Christians hate them. And they've experienced things that have caused them to feel that. Yeah, and that would be what they would say. I think there's also people who have seen small groups of Christians be less than loving, such as people who are abortion doctors or people connected with Planned Parenthood or something like that, that they would just assume that that's what Christians believe about them and feel towards them.
Nathan: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Vicki: I'm in a Bible study, and the women in that study are bright. It's a small study. Two are conservative, and I think they would tell you, how can you be a Christian and be liberal? And there are two gals in there that have said out loud, how can anybody be a Christian and be conservative? And it's interesting to be in the study because there's two versus two. But anyway, I think liberals feel bad about conservatives and vice versa sometimes.
Nathan: Yeah. I have found, especially I would say in the last 10 years, I don't know if you've experienced this, Tim, but man, there is a lot of vitriol from Christians who feel strongly against either people on the left or people on the political right. And they just feel that same sentiment. How can you be a Christian and vote or think or act this way? How could you be a Christian and have this political view? It's impossible. And they're very strong and they're very vocal. And God in his infinite wisdom has them all at the same church. Yes.
Tim: Yeah. Especially through the tensions that we went through with COVID with the political tensions and the racial tensions. And it really does expose within each of us where our tendencies lie and who might see things differently. I think there's been historically Christians of different sects, different backgrounds, Catholic, Protestant, denominationalism. It's less so today in our nation, but historically, that's been our, our past.
Nathan: Um, yeah, I went out to lunch with a rabbi just down the road from me, and great guy, and we got to know each other a little bit. And as we were, we were having lunch, I said, well, what, why do you think there's been such global antisemitism, you know, for, for centuries? You know, what, what do you think caused that? And my personal view, of course, is I think there's a supernatural component. I think that Satan has a hatred for Jewish people. And so I think that there is a supernatural reality there. But he didn't share that view. He said, "Oh, the Catholic Church," right? And there's something there too, right? Because the Catholic— not all Catholics, but some were teaching the blood libel, that the Jews were solely responsible for the death of Jesus and that they would steal the Eucharist to hold these dark Sabbaths and masses and then abduct Christian children to hold all of these things. And so he said, yeah, that's where a lot of that comes from. And so there is that assumption that, oh, Christians hate Jewish people. And yeah, I heard that. That was the first I— I mean, I knew about all that stuff, but to lay most of the blame for the large amount of antisemitism on those kinds of beliefs, I hadn't considered that either.
Tim: I hadn't thought that.
Nathan: Ooh, yeah. Well, you know, that's why I asked. Yeah. Because I didn't know all— well, I thought I knew all the answers. I don't. Yeah. So, so what— I kind of got ahead of myself with that story, but what happens when Christians hate our enemies? So when it actually happens, when, when Christians who believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose again, what happens when we hate our Christians? So think interpersonally, but also think, you know, more ideologically, right? So for example, the story I just shared, what happens when Christians ideologically hate Jewish people? Well, there's mobs that happen and there's antisemitism and entire groups of people get chased out of countries or have their homes or businesses vandalized or worse because of hatreds. That can happen on a large scale. But what happens either interpersonally or ideologically? When we hit our enemies.
Vicki: Oh, I could think of a personal example. I do a lot of shopping on Facebook, and I was going to buy a— I don't even remember what I was going to go buy, but I went to the house, and this lovely Muslim woman was selling whatever it was I was buying. And then I went to buy something else. It just turned out it was at her house again, and I thought, I want to witness to her. And if I didn't like her because she was Muslim, I would miss that opportunity. And there was no reason not to like her. She was just delightful. But what a shame it would be if I was put off by the fact she was Muslim just because she was Muslim. What a shame that would be.
Nathan: Yeah. Yeah.
Tim: You know what? I think that one of the things it does is when they hear that Jesus is all about love, and then the followers of Jesus don't—
Vicki: or not—
Tim: they're not, and that's not the experience people have, then the assumption is that either Christianity is false, or that all Christians are hypocrites, or you can't trust them. It destroys reputation. I think people don't want to be around you. If that's who you become, and that's another piece, what happens to us when we hate? I think that grows within us. It transforms who we are to become more like that. There's so many fighting even within Christians about, like Vicki had mentioned, how could you be a liberal? How could you be a conservative? and there are certainly things that Christians can embrace that are seen as conservative values, but there's also certainly values that are taught in Scripture that more liberals would lean towards, such as taking care of those that are poor, you know, that kind of thing. So it causes us to fight one another.
Nathan: Solomon knew this level of hatred would pull apart our communities, or this kind of strife-causing would pull apart our communities. That's why he wrote Proverbs 10:12. Uh, Tim, you want to read that for us? Sure.
Tim: Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.
Nathan: Why should God's people remove hatred from their lives? Because only love can end conflicts. Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses. This proverb is so profound that the Apostle Peter paraphrased it when talking to the Christian community experiencing alienation because of their faith in Jesus. So they were experiencing hatred because they followed Christ, and Peter paraphrases this proverb. Vicki, you want to read us 1 Peter 4:8?
Vicki: Sure. Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.
Nathan: Both Peter and Solomon agree that community and interpersonal strife can only be ended when we put away hatred and choose love. But that's hard.
Vicki: It is hard.
Nathan: It is hard. Why is it hard to love our personal or our ideological opponents?
Vicki: Because we feel attacked and it gets our heart pumping and we feel angry and we think, how dare you? And because of that.
Nathan: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Tim: Well, I think that if we express love towards those who see things differently from us, then sometimes people might take that as condoning what it is or alignment with their perspective. You know, that's one of the things I think you even see politically. If you say anything positive about somebody on the other side of the aisle, all of a sudden you're labeled as one of them.
Nathan: Yeah.
Tim: And that can happen even if If we show kindness to somebody who sees things differently, then people assume that you're soft on whatever it is that they might see differently, or you're aligned with them. And we don't want that. We don't want to be labeled as that or seen as weak, weak on sin or weak on truth. And we don't want to be weak on either.
Nathan: Yeah. Yeah. Love is hard. It really is. It's seen as weak. We don't want to become doormats, right, where people just wipe their dirty feet all over us.
Tim: Mm-hmm.
Nathan: It makes us vulnerable.
Tim: Well, I think it's hard also to love because it costs us something. It takes time. It takes attention. It could take financial resources and the payoff is not guaranteed in the short run. So is it worth investing in this if I don't see an immediate return? Because it does take time, and especially if it's not reciprocated. Yeah. You know, it feels like you're throwing resources into a well that's never gonna come back. You really don't know. It feels like a waste of time and energy at times.
Nathan: An author friend of mine, Lars Walker, wrote a series of historical fiction books about the Christianization of the Vikings in Norway. And in the book, when our protagonists discover that the blacksmith has been actively undermining their community and working with their enemies, these Christians choose to torture him for information. That is horrible. I just—
Tim: horrible, horrible.
Nathan: It's terrible.
Tim: It's awful.
Nathan: And after the fact, they realize the evil they committed. They know that what they did was wrong. And it's a quote I go back to often. The narrator of the book who participated and okayed the torture, Father Alile, says, "You cannot build Christ's church with the hammer of Thor." Hmm. So here these people had experienced Christ, they had been baptized, they're trusting in him, and they go back on their old pagan ways. Fight our enemies with, let's hate them, let's torture them to get whatever we need to get out of them. And they come back to realize we are using the tools of the devil, we are using the tools of the enemy, we are using what we used to use as pagans and trying to somehow baptize it in the name of Christ and think that it would be okay. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. You cannot build Christ's church with the hammer of Thor. We don't overcome evil with evil. Hatred is not undone by hatred.
Tim: That reminds me of a story that one of my professors in seminary would share. He was part of the first regiment that would enter into Dachau after World War II, and it was heartbreaking. And the response of some— of everybody was, of course, tears. But it was also some of them were stirred to hate. Yeah, we're going to bring revenge on these people.
Nathan: We're going to—
Tim: we're going to destroy these people for what they've done. And he would say his phrase that he would repeat for us is, and with tears in his eyes, he would say, be careful when fighting the enemy lest you become the enemy. And that, that was in the face of extreme evil. Like, how do you respond to that? And his response was, you cannot become evil. To destroy evil.
Nathan: Wow.
Tim: Wow.
Nathan: But we think— we don't believe that though. I mean, we believe that intellectually, but emotionally, that feels wrong, doesn't it? It feels like, okay, I have to fight fire with fire. I have to respond with hatred if people hate me. It's incredibly difficult. In fact, Vicki, I know this is— we've talked about this text before. It's one of our favorite verses in the whole Bible because it's so easy to follow. Would you share with us Matthew 4:43 and following?
Vicki: It is as you have heard that it was said, you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven.
Nathan: I tell you, that text— I have done ministry for long enough where people— because I've been in ministry for about 26 years and sharing this with church people, non-church people, when they would get uppity or hate, hateful towards people that they shouldn't be hateful towards, I would quote this. And there was a point maybe about 15 years ago, I saw this change start to happen. Before 15 years ago, I would say, you know, we need to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us, like Jesus said. And everyone would break eye contact and reluctantly agree and say, yeah, you know, you're right, that's hard. And then about 15 years ago, I remember we were at a wedding and we were sharing this with some of our family members who were getting very hateful towards a different political ideology. And one of our family members stood up and said, "No, I don't. That's immoral. What Jesus said is wrong. It's wrong." And I was like, "Wow." Now, this person was not a believer. He'd grown up in the church, but he walked away a long time ago. And I was like, "Oh, that's interesting." And I have seen a shift where I'm with a group of Christians, and I will quote this, and now it's not the, "Oh yeah, that's hard. We can't do that." And they're like, "No." And they try to justify why their hatred or their enmity or their criticism, harsh criticism of another group or person is justified. And I'm justified in my hatred. And I'm not saying they're not justified in their hatred, but I'm saying, well, I'm not saying it. Jesus is saying, Yeah, you need to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. But that's hard. Yeah, it's hard. I actually, I tell people, I don't know, Vicki, do you think it's hard or impossible?
Vicki: I know it's not impossible because, well, I won't go into the details of it, but, but I had been very deeply wounded by someone. And if you knew the circumstances, you'd go, yes, you go, you go. Get 'em! And I was telling a friend of mine who's a daughter of a pastor, and we were in a restaurant, and I always remember the details because she was eating nachos, and she was licking her fingers. And she turned to me and she goes, "Ooh, you sound angry." And I said, Do you not think I have the right to be angry? And she goes, the right to be angry, which just set me off. It was like she just switched a match against me, the matchbook. But I didn't want to admit that I was angry because she just accused me of it. So I said, I couldn't wait to get out of there because I was going to go look at verses that showed her I had the right to be angry. It was righteous anger. I was I was ticked off. So, I went home and I got out my concordance. And the first verse I looked up was, "Anger does not bring forth the righteousness that God desires." And I thought, "Well, I don't know the context." So, I looked up another verse and I kept looking at verses. And then I looked up, "You will be forgiven the way you forgive." And it was something Jesus said. And it just scared me to death because that's not even my theology. It didn't matter what I do. It's all on Jesus. And he's telling me, "You look out, babe. You're going to be forgiven the way you forgive." So I know. And so I got on my knees and I said, "I'm angry. I don't know what to do with this. I don't know what to do. I want to do things your way, but I'm angry." And God just took that anger away from me.
Tim: Oh, wow.
Vicki: And it has never, ever come back. And I've made myself since then pray for that enemy. And pray good things and pray that that person walks with God. And that's exactly what happened.
Tim: Wow.
Vicki: So I know this works. I know it. I know it. You have to be willing. But if you are, God goes, yes, and I will answer that prayer.
Nathan: So maybe not in and of ourselves, but certainly with the power of Christ.
Vicki: Only with the power of Christ.
Tim: Yeah, and I don't think— yeah, that's so powerful. And I don't think that it's an accident that Jesus says, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. I've been told and I've experienced that if you are praying for somebody, it's very hard to hate them at the same time. And I've heard people say, well, I pray for them. I pray that they will see it my way, or in pregatory prayers, pray they die.
Nathan: There's a country song about that. It's like, you know, Mom told told me to pray for them. I pray their car breaks down. I pray they break out in zits, you know.
Tim: I pray they fully experience the total consequences of their— okay, that's not what it means to pray for somebody. But if you truly are starting to pray that they would see and experience the goodness of God, that they would be transformed, that they would become more like Christ, that they would— whatever the prayer might be. But if you're praying the positive, that they would experience the goodness of God in their life, that they would succeed in their lives, that they would receive blessing from God. If you pray those things, it's very hard to keep wishing the darkness on somebody if you keep praying the light into their lives.
Vicki: And the truth is there's a freedom to not be angry. You want God to take that away.
Nathan: It's a burden.
Vicki: It is a burden.
Nathan: It's a heavy load to bear.
Vicki: Yeah.
Nathan: So we heard a little bit about what you're sharing, Vicki. But what happens when we respond to strife with love?
Tim: Well, Vicki, it sounds like one of the things you recognized is when we respond with love, it changes us.
Vicki: It does change us because it takes that anger away. It takes that— it does change us. And there's the potential for it to change the relationship. That happened with me and the other person, and the other person responded to me with love, which I never thought that would happen. Yeah, with kindness.
Tim: I definitely think that it can diffuse the situation. I think it can surprise people in a good way. I think that love and empathy can powerfully work together. If somebody else feels like they— that you can see it from their perspective, even if you don't agree, and you treat them with honor and respect and kindness, it's amazing how that changes you in their eyes from being an enemy to just somebody I disagree with. And that diffuses it and it can build some community.
Nathan: Yeah, yeah, I'm sure there, there are plenty of situations that have happened throughout human history where people choosing to respond with love rather than hatred has changed the course of human history, changed the course of communities if not nations, because like you said, Tim, it it diffuses, right? And Vicki, and like you said, it takes away the burden of the anger that we're feeling. And Solomon knew what he's talking about. He said, hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses. Why should God's people remove hatred from their lives? Because only love can end conflicts. I like to think of hate like garbage. The more we hate, the bigger the garbage pile becomes. If we respond to hate with more hate, the problem doesn't go away. It just becomes larger. You now have an entire garbage dump, right? It's just, just filled with garbage. But what happens if you threw seeds into a pile of garbage? You could actually try this at home right now. Take your, take your garbage pile, and instead of taking it out to the trash at the curb, uh, just throw some seeds in there, see what happens. Leave the lid off. At first, nothing happens, but eventually the seeds will germinate and they will grow from the garbage. This is Solomon's vision. I think you don't add to the pile of hate. You sow love into it. You don't respond to garbage with garbage. You respond to garbage with seeds. You don't respond to hate with more hatred, which makes the problem even worse. You respond to hatred with love. God's people must remove hate from our lives because only love can end conflicts. Throw a seed into the garbage pile.
Brian: Why does Solomon tell his listeners to not hate? Because only when we love, we can end the hate. When we do not throw more hate at hate, things change. We can grow beauty when we throw seeds of beauty onto the hate garbage pile. I trust that today's discussion of God's word has been helpful and serve as an encouragement to not just be hearers of the word, but doers. Together, let's bring God's word to life, to our lives this week. The Crosstalk Podcast is a production of Crosstalk Global, equipping biblical communicators so every culture hears God's voice. To find out more about this educational nonprofit organization, please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org. CrossTalk is training leaders in Bucharest, Moldova, Southern California, Kenya, and Kansas this season. Help us train the next generation of biblical communicators. All you have to do is click "donate" in the show notes and make a donation of any size. You can also support this show by rating it on whatever platform you're listening to us. Be sure to listen next Friday as we continue to learn from God's wisdom in the book of Proverbs. You won't want to miss it.
Nathan: Right. He knew that was kind of a natural— I don't want to say natural.
Tim: Hold on.
Nathan: I don't know why this phone keeps ringing. It says it's from Washington, D.C., so I'm assuming the president is trying to call me. That's what I would guess.
Vicki: I would jump to that.
Nathan: For some insight.
Tim: Tell him to wait. Yeah, we're busy.