How can you find a trustworthy friend?
Text: Proverbs 11:13
Hosts:
J. Kent Edwards
Vicki Hitzges
Nathan Norman
Narrator: Brian French
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2026 CrossTalk Global
Brian: Carole King wrote and sang a song that has encouraged countless people. Listen to the opening lyrics. When you're down and troubled and you need a helping hand and nothing, nothing is going right, Close your eyes and think of me and soon I will be there to brighten up even your darkest night. You just call out my name and you know wherever I am, I'll come running to see you again. Winter, spring, summer or fall, all you've got to do is call and I'll be there. You've got a Friend Friendships can enrich your life in countless ways. Good friends teach you about yourself and challenge you to be better. They encourage you to keep going when times get tough and celebrate your successes with you. But good friends can be hard to find. And there are times when we discover too late that someone we thought was our friend turned out not to be. When a friend betrays you, it feels like a knife to the heart. It forces you to work through feelings of shock, sadness and anger. And you start asking questions like, who can I trust? How can I find a good friend? How can I be a good friend to others? If these questions have ever been yours, you will want to listen to Vicki Hitzges, Kent Edwards, and Nathan Norman as they explore the secret of friendship in Proverbs, chapter 11, verse 13. Welcome to CrossTalk, a Christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible, but to take the next step beyond information and into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life, into all our lives. I'm Brian French. Today, Dr. Kent Edwards, Vicki Hitzges, and Nathan Norman continue their discussion in the Book of Proverbs. If you have a Bible handy, turn to Proverbs, chapter 11, verse 13, as we join their discussion.
Kent: Vicki Nathan, do you have good friends?
Vicki: I have some precious, wonderful friends. Fewer that I trust with my whole heart, but some precious ones.
Nathan: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Lifelong ones that we've built relationships over time. We've gone through things together. Absolutely.
Kent: I found that a bit challenging personally, because, Nathan, as you know, being a pastor, you're fully involved in people's lives while you're doing ministry. But when you leave, you have to allow another person to take that place. And so leaving a church means you leave a lot of friendships behind. And I have found that tough. But there have been some that we have maintained that have been really, really enriching, really helpful.
Vicki: Boy, those friends are valuable, aren't they?
Kent: They are the kind of people that you get together. And it's been a couple of Years. But you instantly reconnect.
Vicki: Instantly.
Kent: Instantly. And the kind of people you say, man, I wish I was closer to them so that we could nourish this even more. Why. Why are friendships so important? Why do we value them?
Vicki: Well, when you have a good friend and they share your worldview and they share your values, when you're off track, they write you. They. They see past your faults when you're. When you are off track and they still love you as they do. Right you. And when you're rightfully hurting, they prop you up.
Nathan: I think a good friend listens.
Vicki: Yes.
Nathan: Just, hey, what's going on? Here's what I'm going through. Okay, what else? Okay, what else? Okay, what else?
Vicki: Right.
Nathan: Not to fix the problem, because they probably can't. Not to make the problem seem like smaller than it is, but just that gift of emotional support through listening and somebody else cares and somebody else gets it, is without price. Without price.
Kent: A good friend will push back sometimes and say, yeah, I understand your pain, but do you think you may have brought that on to yourself? Are you responsible for some of what you're experiencing right now? So there's an honesty, a transparency that can take place that is hard to find.
Nathan: Yeah. I can remember this was someone I was ministering to, but I also considered a friend years ago where he divulged to me that he was thinking about cheating on his wife. And so I.
Vicki: He told you that?
Nathan: Oh, yeah, yeah. He's like, ah, you know, I mean, I think it's like the beginning stages. He wasn't like, I'm gonna go tomorrow and do this right. It was like, I'm so sick of my marriage and I just cheat on her with this person and everything. I was like, show me the picture of the person that you want to cheat on, you know, with. And he showed me a picture and I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, this is far below what a guy respect. Far below what your wife.
Kent: You will never.
Nathan: I mean, first of all, this is going to blow up your whole life. Right? Your family will hate you, your kids won't want anything to do with you. And second of all, you're, like, settling for less.
Vicki: Look at.
Nathan: Look, just. This relationship isn't going to last. It's not going to. So you're going to.
Vicki: But if she were hot. Go ahead.
Nathan: No, no. But in the moment. In the moment where he's, like, having crazy thoughts, I'm like, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? You're going to throw out your whole life for for this. Right. Maybe a five, maybe a four. Right. But, you know, it's a guy. It's guy talk. Obviously, if she was a, you know, knockout, I would have still said, come on, you know, this isn't real. This isn't.
Vicki: Look at you.
Nathan: So what I would have said is, a guy. Look at you. What could she possibly see in you?
Kent: Right.
Nathan: Do you think this is going to work long term? So, you know, I'm just going to duck and dodge with. With whatever punches are thrown. But. But, you know, it. It was effective. He did not cheat on. On his wife with this person. It kind of woke him up, like, yeah, you're right. I could never do better than my wife here. Yeah, of course, you married way out of your league.
Vicki: I had a friend when I was going through my divorce, and I just felt so unlovable. And she's a pastor's wife. And she said, if you are tempted to cheat, promise me you'll call me. And I said, no, I guarantee you I won't. I guarantee you I won't. I didn't, by the way. But, I mean, I didn't cheat, but I also would not have called her.
Nathan: But just. It's a nice lifeline that. That friendship can throw out there to say, hey, I hear. I understand what you're going through is hard, but let's not make bad choices in the midst of this.
Kent: Well, even science tells us that friendships are good for us. One study of high school students found that those who were depressed were twice as likely to recover if they had happy friends.
Vicki: That's probably true, and I think the reverse is true if you're around mopey, sad, or angry people. Boy, it affects your own outlook.
Kent: Well, that jives with another study that found that the risk of mortality increased by 91% among socially isolated people. Wow. Can you believe that?
Vicki: You know, you hear that more and more and more that your lifespan is going to depend on your being around other people. We need each other.
Kent: Yeah, we need friends, and we need good friends. Which is why I'm drawn to Proverbs 11:13. Because Solomon, the wisest man, except for Christ, whoever lived, said something important about friendship.
Vicki: Well, he talks about the tongue in Proverbs. It says, a gossip betrays a confidence, but a trustworthy person keeps a secret.
Kent: Hmm. What is a gossip?
Vicki: A gossip is I go to you and we're talking, and you go, vicki, don't share this. But you tell me something, and I say, oh, Ken, I won't tell anybody. Then I run over and I Tell Nathan, or I tell the girl across the street or. That's what gossip is.
Nathan: Yeah. It's sharing information that's not yours to share. It might not be true. It might not be accurate. It might be accurate, but it's just not your place to say.
Vicki: It's shared information that's not yours to share. I like that definition.
Kent: Yeah. Yeah. One definition I came across is gossip is the often unverified sharing of personal, private, or sensational information about others.
Nathan: It's good. I like that. I like that definition. Not gossip itself.
Kent: But gossip is everywhere in our society. It's all over TV shows. It's rampant in our culture. Why is it so popular? Why do people love gossip?
Vicki: I think it's a weird way of feeling superior. I know something you don't know or. I was trusted with something other people weren't trusted with. Listen to this.
Nathan: Yeah. It goes back to that old adage, knowledge is power. Right.
Vicki: Knowledge is power.
Nathan: So you have a little bit of knowledge, a little bit of power.
Kent: The fact is that people love conflict. Conflict is the essence of a story. And we love to hear stories about others that make us feel, as you said, superior. Boy, I'll tell you, it's kind of like candies at Christmas. It's hard to say no to gossip. They go down smooth, they taste great. But it's harmful, isn't it?
Vicki: It can be very, very hurtful. And you were saying what is a friend earlier? A friend isn't a gossip. If I trust you with something that's personal to me, I expect you to keep that. And if I find out you didn't, you're not my friend.
Kent: Yeah. The word gossip in Proverbs 11:13 literally means slanderer.
Nathan: Wow.
Kent: It means to attack with words, to wound them. A person's reputation. A gossip betrays a confidence. That word betrays literally means to uncover, to pull a blanket off someone and let them see what's below.
Vicki: Oh, wow.
Kent: In fact, when I think of a slanderer. And it reminds me of what happened to Noah in Genesis 9, doesn't it?
Brian: Yeah.
Nathan: When you read that, I actually thought just that. When? Well, in Genesis 9:20, it says, Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard. When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside. Ew.
Kent: So, I mean, it was wrong for Noah to do that, right?
Nathan: Sure.
Kent: But Ham, the father of Canaan, he did what?
Nathan: Well, not only did he go in and see his father naked. So he should have just walked out and been like, all right, that's gross. But he did this, you know, the thing that no one else would do. And, like, hey, hey, hey, guys, Dad's naked. Let's go check it out. Right? That's gross. It's really.
Kent: It is gross.
Nathan: It's not the end of. It's not the most perverted thing to do, but it's pretty perverted, right?
Kent: And think about this. Back up the story a little bit. Noah, remember the flood? I mean, he was the only guy, the only man who survived, right? He and his family. Why was he chosen by God?
Vicki: Because he was righteous.
Kent: Because he was righteous.
Vicki: Because he was righteous.
Kent: Noah was a good guy. Like a very righteous person who made a big mistake. Right? Right. And his son decided to tell others because he. Maybe it made himself feel better.
Vicki: He wanted to shame him.
Kent: Yeah. But his brothers didn't do that. Do you remember how that story continues, Nathan? Yeah.
Nathan: Genesis 9:23 says, But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders. Then they walked in backward and covered their father's naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so they would not see their father naked.
Kent: Hmm.
Vicki: That seems a little excessive. It's not that big a deal to see somebody naked.
Nathan: But they're being respectful. They're being respectful.
Vicki: They're being very respectful. Yes.
Kent: This is my father. This is wrong. But he's a good man, and I honor his reputation, and I will not denigrate him. Noah was not happy when he woke up, was he?
Vicki: No. In fact, it says when Noah awoke and found what his youngest son had done to him, he said, cursed be Canaan. I wonder how he found out. The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers.
Kent: A gossip betrays a confidence, but a trustworthy person keeps a secret. Noah was saying, my son could not keep a secret. He decided to hurt me by passing on information that was damaging to me. Friends do not do that when we gossip. When we slander someone, we betray that person. We fail as a friend and we break the relationship. Have you ever seen this happen in life?
Vicki: I was a gossip. And I'll tell you what happened. When I was in junior high, if a friend said to me, now, don't tell anybody this, but I'd always say, oh, I won't. And then as soon as I heard it, I'd run tell somebody. I mean, that's just how it went. Oh, I won't, but. And I'd run tell, because I wanted to be popular. And I hung around with the group that was popular. I wasn't particularly, but, boy, I wanted to be. So I'd run, tell whoever I could. And then one day, one of my friends named Tony said to me, just angry, I can't tell you anything.
Nathan: Oh.
Vicki: And she couldn't. And as soon as she said that, I thought, oh, no, you can't. Because I just thought it was kind of a game you played. Like, you just say this and then I say that, and then I go tell, you know, But. But it really brought me up short. That was decades ago. But to this day, if you tell me a secret, a confidence, unless you tell me you're going to kill yourself or somebody else, man, your secret is safe with me. And it changed that day. That day, I can't tell you anything. And I thought, oh, I've got to change that. Because she was right.
Nathan: Wow.
Vicki: And she quit being friends with me after that day, by the way. I didn't hear any other secrets from her.
Nathan: My experience similar to that, I was on the receiving end of it. But I had a friend. He wasn't my best friend, but he was within the sphere of groups of my best friends, right? So he's a good friend. And I had this bully from elementary school, all the years in elementary school, and, man, I always had a hard time with him. Always, always a difficult time with him. And this friend went and told the bully all of my secrets that he knew because we were in this friend group together and told him all this stuff. And meanwhile, this guy's now using it against me. It's awful. And I figured out pretty quickly who it was. I called him up on the phone and I said, we're not friends anymore. We're not. I'm done with you. And. And let me tell you, it was so traumatic. The betrayal was so deep. Just a few weeks ago, I was driving past where he used to live, right? Which I normally don't ever do. But I was just over there, and I was in that area. I drove past and I remembered that, and I was like, I am not friends with you anymore. It was a very visceral. The hurt was still there. Like, you betrayed me. And that caused damage. That caused hurt to me.
Vicki: But it does hurt. If you think somebody's got your back and then they turn and they use something, and it may not even be that big of a deal, but if you feel like it's a big deal and they disclose it makes you feel naked. If they disclose it 100%, then you think you're not my friend. And they're not your friend because they'll protect you if they are.
Kent: Yeah. There's an old children saying, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.
Vicki: Not true.
Kent: That's clearly not true. When someone uses information that was shared in confidence, it can cause deep, as you've shared, deep, lasting emotional pain. It can ruin relationships and have a significant psychological impact, often more damaging than a temporary physical injury. That's why Solomon points out in the second half of the proverb that what.
Vicki: A trustworthy person keeps a secret. I've got an example of that, and that would be my mother. My mother was everybody's friend. Everybody would say, oh, Bonnie is my best friend. And my mother may or may not think that because she was just so gracious and lovely, everybody thought she was her best friend. And one day I said to her, mom, don't you ever want to talk about your friends? And she looked at me and she said, no, I don't. And she wasn't being righteous. She was just being honest. She just, no, I don't. And I knew she knew great stuff because everybody trusted her. And I said, why not? And she said, because gossip is like cannibalism. She said, when you gossip about your friends, you just eat them alive one word at a time. And that was my mother. She was trustworthy to the end.
Nathan: What an image.
Kent: What an image.
Vicki: A trustworthy person keeps a secret.
Kent: Bruce Waltke would agree. He wrote that a trustworthy person designates a person who remains loyally attached to another and can be relied upon. A trustworthy person is a person who is true to the interests of others, is as true to the interests of others as to his own. That sounds like your mother, doesn't it?
Vicki: Yep, it does.
Kent: What we say about others is important not only because of the impact of what our words have on other people, but for what they reveal about ourselves. Vicki, isn't that what Jesus is pointing out in Matthew chapter 12?
Vicki: He says, A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the Day of Judgment for every empty word they have spoken. For by your words, you will be acquitted, and by your words, you will be condemned.
Kent: That's kind of scary, isn't it?
Vicki: Yeah. Words matter.
Kent: It really shows the source of gossip, the source of the betrayal we will have of others when we share what should not be shared. With others, it comes out of a dark heart and we need to address that. Nathan, I think you'll agree that this is especially important in a local church context. I find it interesting in Eastern Europe that the tradition is when we talk and address someone, we call them brother or sister. Brother Kent, they will call me. And they talk to someone. Sister Leah. But it's always spoken the terms of family, because the church is a family. We're part of the family of God. But when gossip invades the church, family. Boy, that can be destructive, can't it?
Nathan: Yeah, I've seen it happen and I've seen it happen firsthand. You start sharing stories with people and people aren't getting into face to face. Conversation destroys trust and it pulls people apart. And that trust will never, ever be rebuilt apart from a miracle from God.
Kent: Well, and James is clear in James 5. 16 that we are to confess our sins to one another so that you can be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. I'll tell you one thing. I don't want to confess my sins with a room full of gossips. Do you?
Nathan: No.
Vicki: No, you don't.
Nathan: No. And that's Kent, you've pointed this out before. That's one of the challenges of the Protestant Church in general is how do we do this? How do we practice confessing our sins to each other in a way where we are not encouraging gossip, but we can also do what we are commanded to do in James 5. 16. Right.
Kent: Right. We need to find people we can open up to to confide in and seek help from. But be careful about who you choose. Select people of good character and be a person of good character yourself. Value and respect the reputations of others. Because a person's reputation is like antique crystal. It's beautiful and fragile. So handle it with care. During the Second World War, the US military promoted the phrase loose lip sync ships because it was accurate. They understood that discussing sensitive information such as troop movements, shipping schedules or equipment status could be heard by enemy spies. This kind of loose talk could enable the enemy to intercept and destroy Allied vessels. It could cost them the war. But words can do more than sink boats. They can also sink relationships. How do you know if someone is your true friend? By listening to how they talk about others. How do you know if you're a true friend? By how well you protect the reputation of others. If that's true of you, people know that if you just call out my name and you know wherever I am, I'll come running to see you again. Winter, spring, summer or fall. All you've got to do is call and I'll be there. You've got a friend how do you know if you are a true friend? By how well you protect the reputations of others.
Brian: God wants us to love him and to love one another. How can we love our friends? And how can we determine if someone is a true friend? By listening to how they talk about others and to be sure we honor others confidences. I trust that today's discussion of God's Word has been helpful and served as an encouragement to not just be hearers of the Word, but doers together. Let's bring God's Word to life, to our lives. This week. The crosstalk Podcast is a production of crosstalk Global and Equipping Biblical Communicators so every culture hears God's voice. To find out more about this educational nonprofit organization, please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org. crosstalk is training leaders in Bucharest, Moldova, Cuba, Kenya and Kansas over the next few weeks help us train the next generation of biblical communicators. All you have to do is click donate in the show notes and make a donation of any size. You can also support this show by rating it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you find it. Be sure to listen next Friday as we continue to learn from God's wisdom in the Book of Proverbs. You won't want to miss it.