Have you considered revenge?
Text: Proverbs 20:22
Hosts:
J. Kent Edwards
Nathan Norman
Narrator: Kristin Norman
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2026 CrossTalk Global
Kristin: Throughout history, humans have committed atrocities in the name of vengeance. It's experienced by adults and children as young as toddlers. The desire for revenge has been observed in virtually all societies across the world. James Kimmel Jr. A lecturer in psychiatry at Yale University School of Medicine, argues in his book the Science of Revenge that real or perceived grievances form the basis of most human aggression. And when grievances fester, they fuel a cycle of revenge seeking that in the brain appears just like addiction. Movie star Sylvester Stallone understands this. That's why many of his movies focus on it, and why he had Rambo say in the movie Last Blood, I want you to feel my rage, my hate, when I reach into your chest and rip out your heart like you did mine. You and I might not openly express these thoughts, but we have all felt the urge to return harm to others, to hurt those who have hurt us. It seems natural. We think we're balancing the scales, restoring order and making things right. We want the good guys to succeed and the bad guys to fail. That's why Solomon's advice in Proverbs 20:22 is so important for us to consider. Join Kent Edwards and Nathan Norman as they discuss how God's people should respond when they start to consider harming those who have hurt them. Welcome to crosstalk, a Christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible, but to take the next step beyond information into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life, into all our lives. I'm Krista Norman. Today, Dr. Kent Edwards and Nathan Norman continue their discussion in the Book of Proverbs. If you have a Bible handy, turn to Proverbs 20:22 as we join their discussion.
Kent: Maybe it'd be helpful to begin our discussion with a definition of terms so we know what we're talking about.
Nathan: It's always a good thing.
Kent: Revenge is not justice. Justice is the resolution of disputes or the correction of wrongs through a fair and impartial application of the law, ensuring that each party gets what they are entitled to. Revenge is very different. Revenge is the infliction of retaliatory harm so that we feel better about ourselves. In revenge, our goal is emotional satisfaction after someone has injured our self image or social standing or reputation. It's driven by a desire for vindication in our own eyes or in the eyes of others. Nathan, you've been in the people business for many years. Have you ever seen people struggle with a desire for revenge?
Nathan: Yeah, absolutely. Whether it's for petty things or for massive things, right? So somebody abused your kid, right? And they want to go after them. Somebody stole money from you, they want to see them in trouble. I recall an older friend of mine, he drove truck and he shared it with another guy. So he would do the night shift, the guy would do the day shift and it was like a circular route. And he'd complain all the time. I'd see him like at least once a week, twice a week usually. And he complained about this guy all the time. His truck mate, like, oh man, he just trashes the truck. It just drives me nuts. I talk to him and he doesn't even care. And he's so angry. I mean, you could see the veins in his face bulging out. About this now, I mean, granted, I understand, right? You clean the thing out and then you get in and it's all gross. Like I get it, but man, he was just fucking fuming. It's like the guy murdered his dog, right? And so he comes and he's telling a group of guys who are getting together for breakfast one day and he's like, all right, I feel better now. What happened? So he stops at a convenience store in the middle of the night, right before he's about to drop the truck off for the night, and he buys this giant bag of peanut butter crackers. And he in the bag, crumples it all up. And before he leaves the truck, he opens the bag and just shakes it everywhere in the truck for the guy the next day. And the guy comes in and the next day is like, man, it was really messed up the way you left it. Yeah, how do you like it, right? But he just, he just felt the need, I gotta get this guy back for destroying this truck. So, yeah, I've seen, I've seen, I've seen really depthful. You know, somebody, some, my husband, my wife cheated on me, right? And they want to get them back or, or something petty like that, right? The guy's a bit of a pig, so I'm going to out pig him.
Kent: Or even in a work environment, you know, inter office politics can sometimes enter in. Somebody at a meeting talks about your work performance in a way that's not positive in front of the whole group and oh, wow, what did they do to my rep? Everyone thinks this now, so you can be tempted then to say, well, how can I return the favor? And have them turn the tables in the next meeting so that they look bad. That kind of desire for revenge, you know, as that author James Kimmel Jr. Said, I mean, it's it seems like it's inbred in us. Yeah, we just, we. Someone hurts us, we want to write the scales of justice. And, and, but as that definition told us, it's always rooted in emotion. It's always rooted in feeling. Justice is to be impartial, often by a third party, so that people get what they deserve. But that's not revenge. Revenge is the dish best served cold. That's the quote that we often hear, which is kind of interesting because Solomon seems to be going against the grain when he tells us in Proverbs 20:22, well, read that for us.
Nathan: He says, do not say, I'll pay you back for this wrong. Wait for the Lord and He will avenge you.
Kent: Hmm. Don't say, I'll pay you back for this wrong. I look it up and that word translated as wrong in English is mainly used in the Old Testament to describe unethical or immoral actions towards others, whether speech or behavior. This is unethical or immoral actions. It's getting back at someone unethically or morally. And the second stanza, wait for the Lord and he will avenge you, is interesting because that word, avenge means to be saved, delivered, to experience victory. And it can be translated also as vengeance. So Solomon's saying, don't you do it. Wait for the Lord and He will avenge you. It's interesting that word Lord is capitalized. Why is that?
Nathan: Well, every time in the Old Testament where you see the Lord capitalized, that is a stand in for what scholars would call the tetragrammaton. So that is God's personal name, which we typically, we're pretty certain that it's pronounced Yahweh. And so anytime in the Old Testament, you see the Lord and Lord is all in caps. It's completely appropriate to substitute in there Yahweh.
Kent: And that was really the covenant name.
Nathan: Of God, the personal covenantal name of God.
Kent: You are my people, I am your God.
Nathan: We're on a first name basis.
Kent: So what Solomon is alluding to here is it's not just that we have the promise of eventual salvation, but that he will right wrongs for us. He's going to make sure that wrong does not go unpunished. But that's not typically what we see in society. Instead, we have all kinds of people reacting against each other. I mean, in our political climate today in America, think of the racism that we're facing. People who hate others and treat them badly because of the color of their skin or the language that they speak, it is easy to, to attack and defame. It's even easier with the. With the access to the Internet now, isn't it?
Nathan: Yeah, it sure is. Even. Even if you have your real name and face associated with whatever social media account you have, there is this distance between you and the person you're talking with, so that it kind of emboldens our. Our lesser nature, if you will. Right. Because there's no immediate consequence if I say mean and nasty and horrible things to you. Right. Even like the political hatred. Right. So if someone's a Republican and they feel fully justified in hating the Democrats or vice versa. Right. Like, oh, if you're a Democrat, it's okay to hate Republicans or liberals and conservatives or however you want to slice the political cake. It is easy to say whatever that other side does is all wrong always. And they're always wrong and they're always bad. On my side is the side of angels. And it escalates, right. You know, so it doesn't just stay at, you know, I don't like how you voted. It has the political discourse. I've watched and I've lived through this as an adult. Gone from you guys are terrible to you're immoral to your monsters, and I hate you and you don't deserve to live. Almost. Right. It's scary, but that's the nature of revenge. It escalates. Right? You punch me in the shoulder, I'm going to punch you in the face.
Kent: And what I found is that in weaker moments, when I have given in to the desire for payback for revenge, found it never works because I can never predict how an evil person will then respond to my retaliation. Hmm. So they do something to me and I'll send an email that makes me feel really good when I push send. The better I feel emotionally when I push send is I know how much I'm going to regret it later. Always. It is always and often. Because truly evil people, I can't foresee how they would try to get back at me because I'm not that evil and I don't want to be that evil. I don't want to get into this game at all. It's a practice. Revenge is something that we feel good doing, but it never works and always comes back to bite us. But it's hard in those moments to remember. Solomon say, do not say, I'll pay you back for this wrong, but wait for the Lord and he will avenge you. That's tough. But it's not just an Old Testament principle. Doesn't this verse remind you of some teaching in the New Testament. Yeah.
Nathan: See, we get it from all sides of Scripture. Jesus. Jesus said in Matthew 5. This is going back to episode 199, if you guys want to go back and listen to it. What are we on? 276, I think. My goodness. My goodness. Matthew 5. 39 says, But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles, give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Kent: Wow, that's hard stuff. That's hardcore.
Nathan: I've listened to a lot of sermons that explain it all away.
Kent: Oh, really?
Nathan: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He didn't really mean this. What he really meant to say was go after them. Right. Because it's hard. Frankly, it's impossible. Apart from the empowering work of the Holy Spirit, sure.
Kent: But it makes you feel like Jesus is saying a doormat. Right? Don't resist. If they slap you, let them slap you again. If they want to sue you, give them more. If they make you walk one mile, go two smiling. If they come and ask for help financially, do that. Why would Solomon and Jesus come together and give this kind of advice that makes us feel like we're a doormat? Well, I want to suggest two reasons. One is if you continue in Jesus teaching, in Matthew 5, you come across the statement that Jesus wants us to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect, which means that he wants people to see God in us. Our Father in heaven loves the just and the unjust. He gives both reign, even evil people. He can bless with children, bless with health. We're to be like our Heavenly Father. And I take it that when we live those kind of lives, we become salt and light that Jesus talked about earlier in the Sermon on the Mount. If people see God in us, we have the opportunity to not only live, but speak evangelistically to them, to explain to them why we are not like the world and how God has transformed us. I think this is part of the reason for this is so that we can have a positive evangelistic impact on the world in which we live. But secondly, I think another reason is the fact is this works. I mean, this isn't just a hope. When Solomon says the Lord will avenge you if you don't try and get revenge for yourself. That's true. It happens. I can think of, well, probably. There's lots of examples, but I can think of at least two. Do you remember in 1 Samuel 25, when you've got that story with David, Nabal and Abigail?
Nathan: Yeah. So David and his mighty men, his army, while they were kind of on the run from Saul, they protected Nabal's sheep, his flocks and his shepherds from raiders. And so, you know, they kind of had an under the table deal of, we'll protect you and when it comes time, you know, you'll take care of us. And so at sheep shearing time, and when it was time to pay David for his services so that his family can have clothes and they can eat Nabal's, like, I don't even know who you are. And not only doesn't give him what he's due, but he embarrasses him in front of his own people and insults him. So David is ready to strike him down.
Kent: In fact, he says he was ready to, with his 400 men, kill them all.
Nathan: Yeah. He took an oath to God that he was going to do so. Right.
Kent: So that's an emotional response.
Nathan: Yeah, very. I would say.
Kent: Yeah.
Nathan: And Abigail, one of the heroes of the Bible, as David is storming down with his men, jumps in front of the approaching army and basically says, yeah, my husband's an idiot, don't do this thing. And she gave gifts to him of food and clothing and reminded him that this is not God's ways. And so he. He turned from his wrath. He turned from revenge.
Kent: He did. And she begs him, asking him not to do this, because she says, my master will not have on his conscience the staggering burden of needless bloodshed or of having avenged him yourself. Wow. And David responded. He actually listened to this advice, great advice about not seeking revenge. And as I read from that chapter, David said to Abigail, praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel, who has sent you today to meet me. If you had not come quickly to meet me, not one male belonging to Nabal would have been left alive by daybreak. But do you remember the unexpected twist?
Nathan: Yeah. Just a short while later, God killed Nabal and David married Abigail.
Kent: So did the Lord avenge David?
Nathan: He sure did.
Kent: Complete turnaround.
Nathan: Absolutely. And David didn't have blood on his hands. Yeah.
Kent: And he would have not had that benefit if he had responded with vengeance. He was willing, with Abigail's counsel, to wait for the Lord and allow him to avenge. And for the people who may be pastors among us. I'm struck by what's going on in Numbers chapter 12. In Numbers, chapter 12, we have Moses, who has liberated Israel from Egypt, taken them across the Red Sea, provided for them in their journey towards the promised Land. But we read in Numbers 12, Verse.
Nathan: 1, in Numbers 12, starting in Verse 1, it says, Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the cushite woman whom he had married, for he had married a cushite woman. And they said, has the Lord indeed spoken. Only through Moses has he not spoken through us also? And the Lord heard it.
Kent: Wow. So think of this. Miriam and Aaron, two people closest to him, began to slander him. Right. Attack him because of his wife. That hurts when people attack you and the one you love the most and are committed to for life.
Nathan: Yeah. And this is not like this. Like. It's not like he just married this woman. He's been married to her this whole time. And they've never brought this up before. Now all of a sudden you're leveling this. This hatred towards his wife. It's something else. It really is.
Kent: And then the Lord spoke, as the Lord spoke only through you. Hasn't the Lord also spoken through us? What are they saying then? What are his accusations?
Nathan: God can work through us just as much as he can work through you.
Kent: Yeah. Who do you think you are? Yeah.
Nathan: Maybe you're not God's man.
Kent: Yeah. You're not so special. I think we need to have shared leadership here. And when this goes by such prominent people among the people of Israel, what could happen? What are the consequences?
Nathan: Oh, division. Immediately. People take Aaron's side, people take Miriam's side, people take Moses side, and the people are divided.
Kent: And this happens in churches. Doesn't only happen in ancient Israel. When people start gossiping and slandering, it can divide the church. And when that happens, what are we, as pastors, church leaders, tempted to do?
Nathan: I'll tell you exactly what we're tempted to do, because I was very familiar of this happening in another church at a different time. Basically, the two pastors got into an argument about some issue. And I think it was an important issue. But as they're trying to work it out behind the scenes, the senior pastor gets up on Sunday morning and says, we're not having a church service. So the worship team, you guys are done. And says, instead, we're going to talk about these accusations. And so he stopped the church service and now tries to have this argument in front of the whole congregation with the visitors there in front of everybody. One of the most ugliest things I've ever heard of. It's just so awful. So awful. And this is going, I don't know, probably 20 years after the fact. And I still occasionally hear about reverberations and consequences from that kind of vitriol.
Kent: Yeah. In verse three, we read in numbers 12. Now, Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth. So he did what his humility led him to do. What?
Nathan: Nothing. Not seek revenge?
Kent: No, revenge. That's humility. That's the opposite of retaliation. And as Solomon predicted, the Lord came to his rescue. The Lord said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, come out to the tent at once, all three of you. Wow. That's pretty bold, man.
Nathan: You're in trouble. You hear the voice of the Lord, you're like, oh.
Kent: And what did God say to them, all three standing in front of him?
Nathan: And the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud and stood at the entrance of the tent and called Aaron and Miriam. And they both came forward and he said, hear my words. If there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord myself make known to him in a vision. I speak with him in a dream. Not so with my servant Moses. He is faithful in all my house. With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly and not in riddles. And he beholds the form of the Lord. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses? And the anger of the Lord was kindled against them, and he departed. Now, when the cloud removed from over the tent, behold, Miriam was leprous like snow. And Aaron turned to toward Miriam, and behold, she was leprous.
Kent: Yeah. God stepped in. God got the vengeance, did the justice that Moses could never have got through revenge. Yeah.
Nathan: And it's important to note it was only 10 days of this public leprosy, which would have been embarrassing. It would have been, you know, symbolic. But. But God was saying, no, no, I'm not going to crush you, but I am going to chastise you. And I am going to make it known that Moses is my guy.
Kent: So I guess, to me, some advice I would give to leaders everywhere. How does God respond when leaders who are close to him are unjustly betrayed? God will give them the justice that no one else can. That doesn't mean it will be necessarily immediate, as it was for Moses. Maybe not until eternity. But I think we can trust and take God at his word that if we wait for the Lord, he will avenge you. Friends, if we can trust God for eternal salvation, why can't we trust him with our reputation? Let's have the courage to respond to slander insult with love. Let's end the madness of revenge and retaliation and turn the other cheek and let God sort it out. Can we be shock absorbers? Can we not pass it on but be an agent of grace? Abram once asked the question, will not the Judge of all the earth do right? And the answer is yes. So let's let him.
Kristin: How should Christians respond to those who have harmed us by waiting for God to dispense the justice they deserve? We need to trust that God's timing is better than our own. I trust that today's discussion of God's Word has been helpful and served as an encouragement to not just be hearers of the Word, but doers. Together. Let's bring God's Word to life to all our lives. This week the crosstalk Podcast is a production of crosstalk Global equipping biblical communicators so every culture hears God's voice. To find out more about this educational nonprofit organization, please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org. crosstalk has trainings coming up in Cuba, Kenya and Kansas. Help us train the next generation of biblical communicators. All you have to do is click Donate in the show notes and make a donation of any size. You can also support this show by rating it on Apple Podcasts or wherever you find it. Be sure to listen next Friday as we continue to learn from God's wisdom in the Book of Proverbs. You won't want to miss it.
Nathan: I want you to feel my rage, my hate, when I reach into your chest and rip out your heart like you did mine.
Kent: Abram once asked the question, will not the Judge of all the earth do right? And the answer is yes. So let's let him.
Nathan: And then we end with the song Strength will rise as we wait upon the Lord we will wait upon the Lord we will wait upon the Lord.
Kent: Good one.