How can a couple be happy together?
Text: Proverbs 21:9
Hosts:
J. Kent Edwards
Vicki Hitzges
Nathan Norman
Narrator: Brian French
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2026 CrossTalk Global
Brian: The board game Clue is a murder mystery game for three to six players that was created in 1943, where players try to solve a murder that happened in a large mansion by answering three key questions. One, who was the murderer? Two, what was the murder weapon? Three, where was the murder committed? As players take turns moving their tokens around the mansion, entering different rooms and examining the evidence, they search for hints that lead to the correct answer that connects all of the game's clues together. Interpreting a biblical proverb is somewhat similar. The book of Proverbs provides brief statements, statements about the choices we should make in life, but they don't fully reveal the circumstances that led Solomon to create those proverbs. Neither do they always explain why it's consistently in our best interest to follow his advice. No. To truly understand a proverb, we must, like a detective solving a murder mystery, ask probing questions whose answers will help us see why this proverb is necessary and how it can benefit us in the long run. Join Nathan Norman, Vicki Hitzges and Kent Edwards as they help us gain a deeper understanding of the wit and wisdom behind biblical proverbs by asking questions and searching for clues. Welcome to crosstalk, a Christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible, but to take the next step beyond information into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life, into all our lives. I'm Brian French. Today, Dr. Kent Edwards, Vicki Hitzges and Nathan Norman put on their detective hats and look for clues to understand Proverbs, chapter 21, verse 9. Let's join their discussion.
Kent: Nathan, Vicki, have you ever played that old board game?
Vicki: Oh, I used to love it when I was a kid. Yeah.
Nathan: Yeah, for sure.
Vicki: Have.
Kent: Do you enjoy watching murder mysteries on television or on the movie? In the movies.
Vicki: I liked Colombo, who is.
Kent: Yeah.
Vicki: Oh, and one more thing.
Kent: He always seemed like he was the dumbest person, but was actually the smartest. Right.
Nathan: Absolutely brilliant. There is a comic book guy and an artist. I'm still trying to get a print of this. The title is the World's best Detective asks a question and Batman is walking off of the frame and Columbo's in the background and he says one more thing. I love it.
Kent: I like.
Nathan: Because Columbo, you're right, he's excellent.
Kent: And the best murder mysteries seem to me are the ones that you can't really figure out till the very end.
Nathan: Yes.
Kent: And it's always a surprise.
Nathan: My wife's always really good at figuring that out. I'm not.
Kent: Yeah. Mine too. She usually beats me to the punch. Well, let's use our deductive detective skills today on Proverbs 21:9. Would you read that for us, Vicki?
Vicki: Sure. Better to live on a corner of the roof than. Oh, you set me up here. Better to live on the corner of a roof than to share a house with a quarrelsome wife.
Kent: Whoa. In last week's podcast, we saw that proverbs are a distillation of life. They're life lessons, general principles that, if followed, help us avoid life's pitfalls and help us get on the road to success. And we also saw that they encapsulate. They are the core message of a story that came out of real life. They convey the truth that was told through, well, an untold narrative. It's the lesson of a story that we did not overhear. So let's try to discover, follow the clues to learn why Solomon wrote this proverb by asking questions. Who is Solomon speaking to here?
Vicki: He's speaking to young men. And in my head, he's speaking to his son, right?
Kent: Yeah, certainly speaking to young men. Maybe his son, because he's not speaking to women, he's speaking to men. Why does he have to give this advice?
Nathan: Well, he's speaking to young single men.
Kent: Okay, Right.
Nathan: Presumably. Right. Because if he's talking to married men, he's basically saying, hey, man, you're out of luck.
Kent: You're out of luck now.
Vicki: And they already know it.
Kent: So when did you know? How old are people when they get married today for the first time?
Vicki: Early 20s usually. Or late 20s.
Nathan: Yep, late 20s is kind of becoming the norm. Yeah.
Kent: What about in the ancient world, the world of Solomon?
Nathan: Oh, late teens, early 20s.
Kent: Yeah. Younger than today.
Nathan: Much younger.
Kent: Yeah, younger than today.
Nathan: Had a shorter life expectancy. You didn't get married. It's like half your life's over now.
Kent: Okay, so we know who he's speaking to. Men. Young men. Quite. Perhaps quite young men. But why is he giving them. Why is he speaking this way to them? That's a harder question, isn't it?
Vicki: Well, I would say if they had their druthers, they'd pick a hot girl. But I don't think they had their druthers. I think they had arranged marriages back then, right?
Kent: Yeah, they had arranged marriages. That's commonplace in the Bible. In fact, in many parts of the world, it is commonplace today. It is a stark difference from all the rom com movies that we are flooded with in North America. Boy sees a girl, and sudden there's this flash and I'm deeply in love with this person. I found it interesting, though, to have a different view on how love and marriage work. Years ago, when I was in southern India, I was speaking at a conference with lots of people. But I would have meals with the elders of this large denomination, and we'd sit around the table and I'd overhear their conversations, many of which were in English. But every once in a while, they'd talk about someone who had a love marriage. And they spoke with disgust. That person had a love marriage. This person, we thought he was doing well, but then they had a love marriage. And I couldn't figure. I couldn't figure it out. So when the conference was over, I was in a car. We were going to do some shopping, and we had about half an hour in traffic. And I said to this Indian elder who was with me, what is this thing with love marriages? Like in America, we think it's great to marry for love. He says, you Americans, you don't understand anything. I said, okay, great, teach me. And he says, well, there are four words for love. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got that. I studied that. You know, the word that is used for love and marriage is the word agape, you know, act of the will. Yeah, I got that. Well, you know. But so what? And they said, well, we believe not only does marriage have to have agape love, but that it is the core of society. I mean, it's the root of all civilizations. You've got to have a strong family or a culture collapses. And that's true even in the church. We need to make sure that they are strong marriages so that the church can flourish. I said, well, we believe in strong marriages, too. And so he said, do you really? And I said, yeah, of course we do. Then if this is such an important institution, why do you let children barely in their teens with their bodies raging with hormones? Why do you allow them to make the most important decision in life for the church and for society? Wouldn't it be wise for the people who know them best and have their best interests at heart, their parents, to guide them in that decision, to know and use the wisdom that they have that the children don't, to help make sure that they make wise marital decisions in the long run? Well, I can't really argue with that. And they said, yeah, we don't force our children to marry. We introduce them to each other and suggest that both parents think this would be a wise choice, but they get to make the final choice. And because love is an act of the will we learn to love each other. If feelings aren't strong when the marriage begins, they become strong as life continues. And Indian couples, of course, we love each other. A love that is strong, an act of the will that is true. Agape love. I came home and said to my son who wasn't yet married, guess what? Maybe your mother and I should make that choice. Yeah, it didn't really fly in our culture. But I will say that our two boys, before they got married, they had to pass the grandma test. They went and visited Nola's mother, and Nola's mother would have a very long conversation with both of them that we were not privy to as parents. And that was kind of the test. If grandma said, yes, this looks like it's wise, then that was kind of the final go to.
Vicki: For she'd meet with the boys or.
Kent: The couples, both, and would have time alone with just the woman. And we have no idea what they talked about, but I'm sure it was positive. We certainly, certainly trusted them. So here is a young man, if we get back to what Solomon is talking about. Here is a young man who has been given advice. Okay? If he's interested in marriage, then advice has been given. Godly counsel has informed him. And he disagrees. Right. The reason I know he disagrees is because otherwise Solomon wouldn't have said this. Better to live on the roof of a house than with a quarrelsome wife. So he's dealing with the objections of a son who has resisted his advice. We see this decision being made of marriage carefully in Genesis 24 with Isaac and Rebecca, don't we?
Vicki: Well, it says he prayed. Or Abraham didn't want Isaac to take a wife from a heathen culture, the Canaanites.
Kent: Right.
Vicki: So he prayed, lord God of my master Abraham, make me successful today. May it be that when I say to a young woman, please let down your jar that I may have a drink, she says, drink, and I'll water your camels too. So he's kind of putting God on the spot there. Do it my way. Let her be the one you have chosen for your servant, Isaac. The woman was very beautiful, a virgin. After she had given the servant a drink, she said, I'll draw water for your camels too. So she quickly emptied her jar into the trough, ran back to the well to draw more water, and drew enough for all of his camels. And without saying a word, the man watched her closely to learn whether or not the Lord had made his journey successful.
Kent: Hmm. This was the test. What attributes is Rebecca demonstrating here?
Vicki: Well, she's giving, she's caring, she's compassionate and she's hot.
Kent: She's all those things, right?
Vicki: Yes.
Kent: He's not just looking, saying who's the best looking girl. He's saying, in order to fulfill the requirements of Abraham and God, I need to find a woman with character. She was not just looking to see if this girl is wearing a tight pink sweater. He's looking for something of far more substance. And what Solomon is saying to this young man is that after the two week honeymoon is over, you're going to discover you need more than good looks in a marriage partner. You need character. And if you don't consider character when you choose a life partner, you're going to regret it. You will discover the hard way that it is better to live on the corner of a roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife. What does that word, quarrelsome mean? Any idea, Nathan?
Nathan: Literally conflict and strife. So the image it's painting is somebody who has disagreements, not just about substantive things, but things that are inconsequential. They just want to argue, to argue, constant arguments, right where you are finding the nitpicky little things to criticize. Hyper critical about every decision, any decision.
Kent: Have you ever seen people trapped in a marriage with someone who was quarrelsome?
Nathan: I plea. The fifth. Yes. I don't know if I could share any stories without them knowing who I'm talking about. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It's uncomfortable. You just sit there and then they just start arguing about who knows what. Only the good Lord knows. And everyone's just. And they're going, they're going at it, you know, it's hard.
Kent: Yeah. Because how do you respond to someone who's quarrelsome? Either quarrel back or withdraw.
Vicki: Absorb it.
Kent: Yeah, yeah. Day after day.
Nathan: Turtle.
Kent: Yeah. Um. It's like getting whipped by a wet noodle. You may, the first strike may not hurt you, but in the end it gets wearying and wearying and wearying. And when someone is quarrelsome, when there is conflict and strife, day after day, month after month, marriage becomes intolerable.
Nathan: I knew a guy who, this is quite some time ago, but he had such a poor relationship with his wife. And it had a very quarrelsome kind of nature to it that he worked a very lucrative job and he could retire at 65 with full benefits, full pension. And he worked, I think, 15 years longer than he had to because he did not want to spend his days with his wife. He just kept going and he started losing money. So now the more you work, the less money you're getting from the pension and Social Security. So he was losing tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars because he didn't want to go. And it was a hard job. It was physically intensive. And he just kept going and going. And the kicker, of course, is he finally retired and, like, I don't know, died the next month.
Kent: Wow.
Nathan: It's just awful that, you know, that was kind of a marriage where you're like, I don't.
Kent: I don't.
Nathan: I don't want to be involved in that.
Kent: Thanks. And think of how that would impact their children. Think of that, impacted their relationships with others. I don't want people over if they're going to fight with each other all the time. You became alienated and alone. And that's why Solomon says, if you're in a relationship like that, better live on the corner of the roof. In those days, the roofs were flat. So it was kind of like you're living in a second story or in the basement, perhaps, depending on the kind of house that you happen to live in. But you're living in a different part of the house. You don't want to be with that person. It is just. It's just awful.
Vicki: And to be fair, it applies to husbands as well as wives. Men can be quarrelsome, too, and more maybe than naggy and picky and quarrelsome. They can be angry. I've seen a lot of angry husbands. And dismissive and dismissive. That's a good word, too.
Kent: I think Solomon directs this to men specifically because they're more likely to make a bad decision about marriage. I think women tend to have more insight into character. Think about who is this person, not just what they look like on the surface, because if you've ever looked at Hollywood stars in their teens and in their 70s, they don't look the same. As people age, the beauty that was so radiant at one point is often not there. So men are able to fall victim to physical appearance more than women. But it certainly does apply to both. In fact, you see that even in Paul's statements in Ephesians 5, don't you? Yeah.
Nathan: He says, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. And I'm going to point this out because a lot of modern translations, they will put not only a paragraph break, not only white space, but a header between 21 and 22, to try and bring psychological distance between what Paul is saying and the next line.
Kent: My Bible does the same thing, not.
Nathan: In the original Greek and certainly not within Paul's flow. Of thought here. So it says Ephesians 5:21. Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ and without skipping a beat. Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. Husbands. And then in verse 25 says, Husbands, love your wives. Just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.
Kent: So husbands were to love our wives as Christ loved the Church. How did Christ demonstrate his love for the church?
Nathan: Yelling, gaslighting, anger?
Vicki: He gave his life for her.
Kent: Sacrificially right?
Vicki: Absolutely.
Kent: I will do anything for her. I will put her interests ahead of my own. And isn't that what Paul is also asking of the wife?
Vicki: Yes.
Kent: And we are to do that one to another. When husbands and wives live in harmony of mutual submission, we are imitating Christ. In fact, in Philippians 2, Paul says, in your relationships with one another have the same mindset as Christ Jesus. Vicki, remind us of what follows.
Vicki: He says, who in the very nature of God did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage, but rather he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant. Being made in human likeness and being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross.
Kent: When husbands and wives do that, they not only enjoy a great marriage, but they begin to live evangelistically because selfless agape love can only exist in those who are transformed by Christ or empowered by the Holy Spirit. That's why that same in Philippians 2:14.
Nathan: He says to everything, without grumbling or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation. Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky.
Kent: When husbands and wives submit one to another, they are like stars shining in the sky. People say, wow, that is love. That is the love of Christ that they are imitating. They see Jesus in a good marriage as we submit one to another. This proverb is so crucial in the selection of a spouse that it is repeated again in chapter 25. Solomon wants us to know that constant marital strife is so damaging and wearying. Eventually you prefer to sleep in your car rather than your bed. So wise people will choose their life partner primarily because of their character. Vicki, how can a married couple find happiness together?
Vicki: They'll find a spouse who wants a mutually submissive marriage.
Kent: They both give because it's better to live on the corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome husband or wife.
Brian: Marriage can be hard. Hopefully it starts out easy and fun, but to keep it that way, pick a partner wisely.
Kent: How?
Brian: Don't look at your partner's outer appearance. Look at their inner personality. Make sure your potential spouse wants a mutually submissive marriage. I trust that today's discussion of God's Word has been helpful and serve as an encouragement to not just be hearers of the Word, but doers Together. Let's bring God's Word to life, to our lives. This week, the crosstalk Podcast is a production of crosstalk Global equipping biblical communicators so every culture hears God's voice. To find out more about this educational nonprofit organization, please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org. crosstalk has trainings coming up in Cuba, Kenya and Kansas. Help us train the next generation of biblical communicators. All you have to do is click Donate in the show notes and make a donation of any size. You can also support this show by rating it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're enjoying it. Be sure to listen next Friday as we continue to learn from God's wisdom in the Book of Proverbs. You won't want to miss it.
Nathan: Kent's favorite text in the whole wide Bible.
Kent: That's it.
Nathan: Don't live on your roof. Proverbs 21:19. We all know where this is going. We do the board game Clue because.
Kent: It'S better to live on the corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome husband or wife. Good who.
Nathan: This closing has been approved by Vicki.
Kent: Which is the highest rating possible.
Vicki: There you go.