Why be thankful to God in our pain?
Texts: James 1:2; Philippians 4:4-7; Romans 8:28
Hosts:
J. Kent Edwards
Vicki Hitzges
Nathan Norman
Narrator: Brian French
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2025 CrossTalk Global
Brian: A recent study published by the Dove Medical Press found that there is a substantial positive correlation between gratitude and life satisfaction. In other words, people who feel more gratitude tend to feel more satisfied with their lives. And yet there's a lot of pain in our lives today. Isn't God sovereign? Isn't he in control? Why be thankful to God in our pain as we celebrate Thanksgiving in the United States. Join Kent Edwards, Vicki Hitzges and Nathan Norman as they explore gratitude. Welcome to crosstalk, a Christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible, but to take the next step beyond information into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life, into all our lives. I'm Brian French. Today, Dr. Kent Edwards, Nathan Norman and Vicki Hitzges discuss Thanksgiving. Listen in as we join their discussion.
Nathan: Gratitude is weird. It's, isn't it? There's a lot of things to be ungrateful for. So in the spirit of Thanksgiving, which we are just finishing celebrating that in the United States. When you're listening to this, let's look at the negative side of this. What are some of the things that people should be ungrateful for? What are some of the problems people are facing today?
Kent: Well, the economy is not doing so well, at least in our country.
Vicki: It's the economy, stupid.
Nathan: That's right.
Vicki: People are struggling. They're struggling. Food banks are getting hit hard and they're getting hit by people who don't normally use food banks. And I understand that. Home. So there's a word for this. What do you call it when people can't pay their, their mortgages and so they default?
Kent: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. And lots of younger families can't afford to buy homes at all and may.
Vicki: Not ever from what I hear.
Nathan: What was it? The average age of the first time home buyer right now is like 40.
Kent: Yeah, wow.
Nathan: Like, wow.
Kent: Yeah. Well, and you know, there's a lot of illness. How many of us know people who are struggling with illness at this point? You know, cancer is not an uncommon.
Vicki: Word and it's such a brutal disease.
Nathan: I was asking this question at a mixed group of people. Some of them were believers, some of them were not. And one woman said anti Semitism. Right? Like, yeah, what a scourge. It's just unbelievable how much that has grown and how it affects people.
Kent: That word is commonly used now in newscasts and that has not always been the case.
Vicki: No, it hasn't. You do hear that a lot. I'm in the south and racism appears over and over and over for a while that kind of rested down. I don't know if it's because it went away, but it just kind of went away. But you hear it a lot now.
Nathan: Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of reasons that we should not be grateful. There. There's a lot of pain and suffering. And it's legitimate. It's not us being complainers. It's not us throwing a pity party. It is legitimate, difficult pain. You know, I have family members who are in the hospital, family members who've just passed away. It's. It's a hard time of life. I have two of my three children have severe mental health challenges and conditions. Right. There's a lot of reasons to not be thankful. And you know what? Scripture is really weird about suffering and gratitude. It is really weird about suffering and gratitude. For instance. For instance, James 1, 2. Vicki, why don't you. We're just going to. I know James makes a broader argument, but just humor me here. Just read James 1, 2.
Vicki: Okay. It starts. Consider it a great joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you experience various trials.
Kent: That's a hard sell.
Nathan: That's right. That's right. Now, this is going all the way back to, I think, episode two, if I recall correctly. We talked about this text so listeners can go back and listen to that and the broader argument. But if you just read that verse in isolation, it is like, what are we, sadistic? You know, like, yes, I love pain and pain is good. Right? No, James makes a point. Paul kind of continues this idea, though, in talking about how we should rejoice always. Vicki, go ahead, read Philippians 4, 4, 7.
Vicki: He says, Rejoice in the Lord always. And then he says, I'll say it again. Rejoice. Let your graciousness be known to everyone. The Lord is near. Don't worry about anything. But in everything, through prayer and pet with thanksgiving, present your request to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.
Nathan: So he's getting at a, you know, a little bit closer to the answer here, you know, because choosing to rejoice takes effort. But when we bring our pain and our concerns to God, he gives us this supernatural peace in return. He doesn't necessarily change our circumstances.
Kent: I notice that.
Nathan: At least not right then. But that peace that passes understanding, that is phenomenal to. To receive. Like, even though the world is still burning down around you, the house is still burning on all sides, this supernatural peace that contradicts the circumstances comes to us. That's that's a pretty amazing thing. Now, now, from this piece, we're also given this confidence and that kind of confidence that we have, or sometimes you'll see the biblical writers use the hope. I try to have to define that every time, though, because it's almost a garbage word. In our society, hope is like wishful thinking. I hope we get ice cream after we're done with this podcast. Right? Which is terrible wishful thinking because we're in three different locations. It's not going to happen, but I guess I can go on my own. But. But that's not the biblical understanding. It's not wishful thinking. It is confidence that, yes, God is going to bring this about. And so then we come to the classic text, Romans 8:28.
Vicki: It says this. We know, we know that all things work together for good. It qualifies it, though. It says to those who love God, who are called according to his purpose.
Nathan: Right? And so now there's there. It's not just, okay, be thankful and you're going to live in pain, be thankful for the pain. It's not just be thankful and rejoice because God will give you comfort in spite of the pain.
Vicki: Right?
Nathan: But you're still going to go through the pain. Now it becomes, if you're in Christ Jesus, you are going to have a good future regardless of the pain that you're going through. In fact, somehow God, with his amazing imagination and mind will bring about a good end through this pain. Not that he's necessarily the author of that pain, not that he's necessarily the author of that suffering, but he will bring about a good result, a good future for you through this. Now I lack the imagination, understand how my house burning down and family members dying and developmental disabilities and, and, and financial ruin can, can bring about anything good. But that's where hope comes in. There's confidence that because I'm in Christ Jesus, God promises there is going to be a good future. So even in our pain, we can be thankful to God because he offers us a good future in Jesus that gives us confidence in the here and now. Let me give you some images on what this is like. I mean, Ken, think about Jesus's death. How would you describe Jesus death?
Kent: Painful? Yeah.
Vicki: Horrific. It's supposed to be one of the most painful deaths you can ever go through.
Nathan: Right. And if you are Jesus followers and you're following him and you're convinced he's the Messiah, and not only that, but God himself, as Peter confessed, confessed, as Thomas confess, confesses later, and, and and then he dies. The most horrific, painful, shameful.
Kent: Yeah.
Nathan: Humiliating, humiliating death. Yeah. How are you feeling now?
Kent: Yeah, worse.
Vicki: Yeah. Why did this have to happen?
Kent: Right. And why did I hitch myself to this wagon?
Nathan: Yeah. What I. The embarrassment, the concern, the fear. But from the horrific image of Jesus's death on the cross, we get, just a short time later, the resurrection of Jesus with the offer of eternal life. So. So this is the biggest and best example of God using awful, terrible circumstances to bring about good ends. Because it's through Jesus's death, burial, and resurrection, we, humanity, have the offer of eternal life. We can be adopted as sons and daughters. We can. We can be confident that we have good future in the new heaven and the new earth. Right. All of these things that. That God gives us through Jesus. And it came through that terrible pain. Now, when one of my children. I'm not going to say who. When one of my children was a toddler, and we've talked about this before, this image, but, you know, it's time for this kid to get shots. And the first time you go in, you get the shots and they're like, oh, this is terrible. Now the second time you go in, right?
Kent: Yeah.
Nathan: It's not easy. They don't want to get the shots. In fact, if you guys remember the first Jurassic park movie, the opening scene, they're trying to transfer the velociraptor from one cage to the other, but it gets out and it grabs onto one of the workers and it's pulling them into the cage, right? And they're, like, grabbing onto the guy getting pulled in, and they're pulling them, pulling them. And the guy who's overseeing all this is saying, shoot her. Talking about the velociraptor. Just shoot her. Right? And that was my experience with one of my children. The second time, they're like, all right, put the child on your lap and give them a bear hug. Which was a nice way of saying, restrain them, please. Yeah. And I'm holding this kid. Now, in my mind, you know, I come from a family of engineers and scientists and doctors and all this. And I understand that up until the shots, these vaccinations came along, there was an 80% child mortality rate before the age of five. These are so necessary. I love my kids, right? So. But they're painful. They don't want to go through it. They don't have the cognitive ability to understand it. So what do I do? I have the kid on my lap and screaming, sounding like a velociraptor from Jurassic park, right? And I'm holding this kid and man, you wouldn't think a 3, 4 year old could be this strong and could kick. And I'm just holding the kid and they're just fighting me, everything. And finally, to quote the line from the movie, I'm like, shoot, just holding on when I could get, get the kid, like just. And they would, they're like, I was terrible. But from, from that. My kid's alive today. All my, my, my three kids are alive today and healthy. And healthy. They did not have to face that 80% child mortality rate before the age of five. And I wasn't concerned about, about them dying from smallpox, right? Or measles or anything like that. This is how God works. He works through painful circumstances to bring about good ends. Now here's another one that, that I, a friend shared with me and I, I just thought this was absolutely brilliant. Think about Adam's fall, right? So go back to the Adam and Eve story and think about Adam's fall. Like he had intimacy with God, right? Him and Adam and Eve, they had intimacy with God. They walked with him in the garden. They heard him verbally. That's fantastic. And then they ate the fruit. They fell. Sin ruined everything. Painful, painful, terrible experiences. But here's the deal. God doesn't call Adam and Eve sons and daughters. It is only through Christ that we can be called his sons and daughters. Now, Adam and Eve are certainly friends with God, but what's a more intimate, What's a better relationship? Friends or children?
Vicki: Yeah, that's interesting.
Kent: And now we have every spiritual blessing in Christ, right? Right.
Nathan: So God worked through this. He wasn't the author of their evil. He wasn't the author of sin, but he works through this evil to bring about good ends, to call us sons and daughters.
Kent: Powerful.
Nathan: Yeah. So this, I mean, this is baked into how the universe works. We could spend the rest of the podcast here talking about this, but we won't. So you could say, well, wait a minute, okay, so maybe I have trust that I have a good future, but I'm suffering right now, and many of you are. I myself am. We listed a lot of those things off at the beginning. So why, why, what about right now? Like, how can we be thankful? How can we be grateful? Why show gratitude to God right now? Right?
Kent: Because the benefits haven't come yet.
Nathan: Right. So the answer is common grace, that theological term meaning that, you know, we don't live in a hellscape. Right. The world is not awful and bad and evil as it could Possibly be. This isn't hell. God has common grace. He shows us his love. Whether you're a believer or not a believer, but particularly to the believers, he shows this common grace. There are moments of goodness. There are moments of beauty in this life and even in the midst of our pain. So, Vicki, go ahead and read Psalm 145. 9, okay?
Vicki: It says, the Lord is good to everyone. His compassion rests on all he has made.
Nathan: Yeah. All believer. Not believer, animal, you know, the earth.
Vicki: He.
Nathan: He has this compassion for his creation. And then Jesus takes it a step further in Matthew 5:45, and he.
Vicki: And he shows what he's talking about. He says, for God causes his son to rise on the evil and the good. He sends rain to the righteous and the unrighteous.
Nathan: Yes. I had a seminary professor quote this text as a negative, like, God brings calamity. Right. Because, listen, I went to seminary in Southern California, and for some reason, Southern Californians, even though, you know, rain is a necessity, the necessity for life, Southern California steals all of their water from Northern California. And so anytime it rains, they complain because my clear, beautiful blue skies in perfect weather are gone for, like, six days out of the year. And so I have this professor say, yeah, you know, the calamity. Well, that's not what this text is saying. Rain is a blessing from the Lord because rain makes the plants grow. And then the things I like to eat eat the plants, you know, and there we go, the circle of life.
Kent: Oh, my goodness.
Nathan: But. But, Vicki, you're right. As. As you pointed out, for God causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good. Right. So there's blessings in this life right now for all of us. And hymn writer Johnson Oatman Jr. Pointed us in the right direction when he wrote, count Your Blessings in 1897.
Vicki: When upon life's billows. Oh, I know this song. I feel like singing it to you. When upon life's billows you are tempest when you are discouraged thinking all is lost Count your many blessings Name them one by one and it will surprise you what the Lord has done. And the chorus is, count your blessings Name them one by one Count your blessings See what God has done Count your blessings Name them one by one Count your many blessings See what God has done.
Nathan: It's a great practice.
Vicki: It's a great practice.
Kent: It reorientates our thinking in our life.
Nathan: Yeah. And I think our confidence in God's good plan for our future in Jesus will grow if we can see the good things that he's doing right now. Now, that does not minimize the pain that we're going through, which is why Paul said in Philippians 4, to cast your cares on him, to. To present your anxieties to him, so that the peace that passes all understanding will come upon us. We're not minimizing our pain, but we are acknowledging the goodness that God is doing right now. And like I said, I think when we acknowledge the goodness that he gives us right now, which is pittance compared to the future glory in Christ Jesus, that builds our confidence that, yeah, if God can make a world beautiful in this pain right now, man, there's some good stuff coming. I know. I know that I have a good future in Christ Jesus when he returns and sets up the new heaven and new earth. So let's practice, you know, kind of the small heading towards the large practice gratitude for the small things so we can be grateful for the large things coming. And I figured just kind of around Robin, let's spend a little bit of time as a. As a group here, listing off the things we're thankful for, big and small.
Vicki: Okay, I'll start. I'm thankful for the two of you. Kent, years ago, I can't believe it's been as long as it's been. You asked me to be on this podcast, and I thought, I'll do that. I can't believe how many times we have discussed something that I needed to hear, and I needed to hear it right then. And I was like, okay, God, Uncle, I'll do it. And I did it. And then, Nathan, you are the most faithful friend. If I say, would you please pray for me? You will. You will. And you do. And you write to me and you say how such and such a thing going, and you genuinely care. And I truly think of you like a brother. Truly do. And I am grateful for the two of you.
Nathan: Thank you, big sis.
Vicki: Yeah, it's true.
Kent: Well, I'm thankful. You know, we've been doing crosstalk Global. We started now over 12 years ago. And, you know, I'm not lying. It's a lot of work, and it's been a lot of flights, a lot of sleepless days and nights as you try to adjust. Just. I've never worked harder in my life. And. But the results that we're seeing, I mean, I'm. I'm so thankful. It's the hardest and most rewarding thing that I've done just in the last few days. Let me tell you a couple things. Yesterday, Nathan, you remember when you and I were working in Vietnam before COVID yeah. You remember Joseph Hung, our translator? One of the best, I'll tell you. Just an amazing guy. And he and I have been working continuously since that time. Monthly meetings. He's been developing his ability to understand and communicate the Bible. But yesterday, as I've been working with him, not only in inside of crosstalk, but to finish a PhD program in America here where he specialized in biblical preaching. Vicki. Because we introduced him to the big idea that your father had. Robinson did. He graduated with full honors with his oral defense yesterday morning. And he is ready. He wrote an outstanding dissertation on the state of biblical preaching in Vietnam, raising the need for it to be improved and concrete solutions for how that could happen. Wow. I'm excited about the possibility of him helping us spearhead our work in Vietnam. He's an important figure in the house church movement and I think God's about to do something. Later that same day, I just got off that dissertation defense that went so well, and I got a call from one of our former instructors named Kevin. Kevin worked in Africa for what, three, six, maybe nine years developing our students in Africa. And now that the students have progressed and now all African students are doing the instructing, he called me and said, and I want to do more. Where else can I be serving the Lord through crosstalk. I don't want to stop. It's been so rewarding. You know how exciting that is?
Vicki: That's great.
Kent: Volunteers saying, I want more.
Nathan: Yeah. It's important for the listeners to be reminded that everyone who's doing all this stuff at crosstalk are all volunteers. They're all volunteers. You put like six out six years, you put nine years into, into this thing. You're not making any. You're losing it.
Kent: But the impact we're making around the world. So this morning I got a email from Tony.
Nathan: But wait, there's more.
Kent: There is. He says, dear hi, Pastor Kent. I hope you are doing well and that crosstalk cohorts are thriving. I wanted to share some exciting news. I recently accepted a lead pastor position at a local church in my hometown. Crosstalk Global was transformative for me, the cohorts and learning the big idea from your teaching has given me the tools I desperately needed to communicate God's word more effectively. Before Crosstalk, I was just guessing on how to preach. The new church is growing and we have had eight baptisms in my first month of ministry.
Nathan: Wow.
Kent: I am finishing up a 30 year career at UPS and I'm going to be bivocational for the next eight months. Many thanks to you and Your family. Thank you for giving to the Lord. I am a life that was changed. God bless. Tony. Wow.
Vicki: Wow.
Nathan: It's amazing. Yeah, that's good. Praise God. Yeah. I'm thankful, you know, I'm thankful for my youngest son. He's been diagnosed with severe autism. He's going to be four in a few months here and so very low on the verbal scale. And it is challenging. I mean, you know, when he's around, you got to watch him 24 7. It's not, it's kind of not a case of a normal four year old where you can kind of like set him up and go. I mean, he is non stop energy and, and he's non stop exploring so he will explore himself into trouble. You know, when people watch him, we end up in the emergency room because, you know, they don't. He, he injures himself and. But you know, I am, he is, he is always happy. You know, I mean, there are some moments of transition where he's frustrated, but he is so such a happy, joyful child. I am so thankful for that because I know a lot of kids with his condition, they can be angry or, you know, whatever, but he is so joyful. He is so happy. He is so loving. And it wasn't until recently where I realized he just, just, even though he doesn't express it, he wants to be in the room with us. Like, it seems like he's not even paying us any mind, but he just wants to be around us and he loves in his own ways. And I, I don't know the, the, the depth of love that he has taught me and patience. It's been incredible. So I, I'm abundantly thankful for Him. I wouldn't have signed up for this, but God is. Yeah, God's with that kid.
Vicki: Oh, that's great.
Kent: God is good. We don't notice it every day, but we see it all through our lives. Isn't that true?
Vicki: That is very true.
Nathan: Why be thankful to God in our pain? Because he offers us a good future in Jesus. If you have a hard time believing that, spend some time today counting your blessings.
Brian: Count your blessings. Name them one by one. Count your blessings. See what God has done. I trust that today's discussion of God's Word has been helpful and served as an encouragement to not just be hearers of the Word, but doers together. Let's bring God's Word to life, to our lives. This week, the crosstalk podcast is a production of crosstalk Global, equipping biblical communicators. So every culture hears God's voice. To find out more about this educational nonprofit organization, please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org. crossTalk Global just completed successful trainings in Moldova and Bucharest, Romania. Help us train the next generation of biblical communicators. All you have to do is click Donate in the show notes and make a donation of any size. You can also support this show by rating it on Apple Podcast, Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're enjoying it. Be sure to listen next Friday as we continue our journey through the Book of Proverbs. You won't want to miss it.
Nathan: We are recording. Can't monitor anyone's, you know, digital well being or levels, but that's just, you know, the situation I guess we find ourselves in.
Kent: We live by faith. We trust in zoom.
Nathan: No, no, I do. Not at all.
Vicki: And I don't have to write a close.
Nathan: You don't have to write a close. Yay.
Vicki: I'm thankful for that.
Nathan: Oh, man, like, I, I can't tell you how much I, I am thankful for you writing those closes. Because, man, the few times I've had to, it's I. I'm like.
Vicki: I'm happy to do it.
Nathan: I don't feel like thinking.
Brian: Count your blessings. Name them one by one. Count your many blessings. See what God has done. That's just for you. Nathan, you're not allowed to use this. I know where you live.