How can we survive in the spiritual world?
Text: Proverbs 1:1-7
Hosts:
J. Kent Edwards
Vicki Hitzges
Nathan Norman
Narrator: Brian French
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2025 CrossTalk Global
Brian: According to the American Red Cross, 11 survival skills could end up saving your life. 1. First aid. It prevents bad situations from getting worse until medical professionals arrive.
Kent: 2. CPR.
Brian: It saves the lives of people experiencing serious heart issues. 3. Trauma treatment applying tourniquets and packing wounds can stop deadly blood loss. 4. Water safety because it only takes a moment to drown. 5. Shelter building keeps you warm and dry.
Kent: 6.
Brian: Fire building provides light, heat and wards off predators. 7. Foraging and hunting. People need food to survive. 8. Water purification because we need water too. 9. Navigation skills so you can find your way to safety.
Nathan: 10.
Brian: Signaling what is signaling? A mirror, fire, smoke or flashlight can help rescuers find you faster. 11. Knot tying an often overlooked skill, knot tying increases your chances of survival by helping you build a shelter, set snares and create tools. So grab a rope and brush up on your knot tying skills. That's all good advice for surviving in the physical world. But how can we survive in the spiritual world that surrounds us? What moral life skills do we need to learn? If you would like to know how God's people can learn to make consistently wise, godly decisions while living in a sin sick society, join Kent Edwards, Nathan Norman and Vicki Hitzges as they begin to find the answers in their new series of conversations in the Book of Proverbs. Welcome to crosstalk, a Christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible, but to take the next step beyond information into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life, into all our lives. I'm BRIAN FRENCH. Today, Dr. Kent Edwards, Vicki Hitzges and Nathan Norman begin their discussion in the Book of Proverbs. If you have a Bible handy, turn to Proverbs Chapter one as we join their discussion.
Kent: So, Vicki, Nathan, how many of those Red Crosses survival skills have you mastered?
Vicki: Oh, well, I was listening to that list and I thought, if I have to build a shelter, forage and hunt, purify my own water, just send a bear after me. I don't even want to live. Gee.
Kent: Well, I guess Red Cross wouldn't give you their seal of approval.
Vicki: No, they would.
Kent: Nathan, do you feel any competence in any of those areas?
Nathan: I've had some training or experience with all of these. I would not put my ability up against anyone. I definitely wouldn't go on a reality show to say, yeah, I could forge my way through this. I could probably muddle my way through better than the average person.
Vicki: Dang you.
Kent: Wow. Yeah, for me, I can swim, so that's good. I can. But I'm camping enough that I can probably build a fire as long as I got matches. I'm not good at flint and starting it from stones or anything. I could fish if I had to.
Vicki: You're making up skills. Fishing's not on here. Swimming's not on here.
Kent: It's foraging. It's foraging.
Vicki: Using a match is not on. If we're doing that. I can put on makeup, I can roll my hair. I can start a car.
Nathan: I can find keys really good.
Kent: I can too, because I got airtag. I will say that because I've been boating through the years, there's a few knots I can tie. So that's at least one thing I can do. Are there any skills you would like to learn that list? Is there anything that would be on your to do list?
Vicki: That's a pregnant pause. On a trip to Africa, they showed us how to build a fire with. I can't even remember what they used and it wasn't what I thought and it wasn't as. What do they use to build fire? Can you remember what they use now?
Nathan: Wood.
Kent: Two.
Vicki: With two stones. Is that what it was? I think it was two stones and it was. I thought they'd just rub them together until they got really hot, but that's not what they did.
Kent: You strike them and see if there's first spark or. I've seen people take like a wooden dowel and with a string and make it go back, go back and forth very fast. So it's develops heat and stuff can start to burn.
Vicki: Well, they didn't just go click, click, click. And finally a spark came. It was. It was complicated, but yeah, I wouldn't mind knowing how to do any of this, but I would like it kind of like. I wish with my dad's brain. I wish somebody could just download the information. I don't want to just sit there and learn all this stuff.
Nathan: Yeah, I would like to know more about water purification. Right. Because I have in, you know, our little fun pack, I've got like chloride and iodine tablets and stuff like that. And I've got little drinking pens that you can drink water through. But I don't want to be out there trying to survive and getting beaver fever. Not to be confused with beaver fever from the 2000s. But yeah, I don't want to get sick from the water.
Kent: I think learning first aid would be first aid.
Vicki: Yeah, I agree.
Kent: I don't have any skills in that area, but they sure would be. I'd love to learn them.
Nathan: We do a training for that in our church annually.
Kent: That's wise. The Bible doesn't cover much about the survival skills Bryan mentioned, but it highlights the moral life skills we need. It tells us how to make wise God honoring choices even when we're surrounded and partially blinded by the ethical fog of our corrupt world. In fact, among all 66 books of the Bible, one of the most practical and useful is the book of Proverbs. And the irony of it all is that it has become, at least in my lifetime, one of the most overlooked books of the Bible. Guys, have you found that to be true? When's the last time you heard a preacher preach the entire book of Proverbs as they do New Testament books?
Nathan: The entire book?
Vicki: Well, I was.
Kent: Yeah.
Vicki: Well, I was blessed to grow up with a family friend be Dr. Bruce K. Walkey, and he specializes in this. So I grew up around it. And it's very interesting. What's in Proverbs?
Nathan: Yeah, no, I haven't heard anyone preach through it. In fact, I was going to try to at one point, and the logistics of it became unwieldy. And so right now, the way I treat Proverbs is I kind of come in and it's like between series, between books. I'll do a section here, I'll do a bit here. I'll do something. After Christmas, no one is at church. So I'm like, let's roll out a proverb. The New Year's wisdom kind of thing.
Kent: Yeah. No, at least my observation is that most churchgoers know a little bit about Proverbs. They know they should train their children in the way they should, possibly something about the virtuous wife. But that's a shame, because as Your good friend Dr. Bruce Waltke said, Proverbs is a mandate for a holy life from ancient sages, the greatest of whom was Solomon. As the course of the bulk in biblical wisdom, the book of Proverbs remains the model of curriculum for humanity to learn how to live under God and before humankind. As a result, he said, it beckons the church to diligent study and application. That's a powerful statement, isn't it?
Vicki: It's very powerful. And you'd think we'd hear a lot of sermons on it, both because of what he just said, but also because it has so much wisdom in it.
Kent: Well, it does. In fact, it's helpful just to back up a little bit and because as Proverbs begins with the Proverbs of Solomon, just to recognize who Solomon was in 1 Kings 3, we get the background don't we?
Vicki: I'll read it. It says, Starting in verse 5, the Lord appeared to Solomon during the night in a dream. And God said, ask for whatever you want me to give you. And Solomon answered, you have shown great kindness to to your servant, my father David. Now you have made your servant king in place of my father David. But I am only a little child and do not know how to carry out my duties. So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. For who is able to govern this great people of yours. That's an amazing thing he asked for, by the way, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, he could have had chariots and women and homes and who knows what, but he asked for wisdom there. The Lord was pleased that Solomon had asked for this. So God said to him, since you have asked for this, and not for long life or wealth for yourself, nor have asked for the death of your enemies, but for discernment in administering justice, I will do what you have asked. I will give you a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like you, nor will there ever be.
Kent: Isn't that astonishing? There will never be another person like Solomon that has that kind of wisdom. When we open the Book of Proverbs, we encounter the wisest man who ever lived. A discerning man who could distinguish between right from wrong and who knew how to make choices that honored God even in the most difficult situations. Aside from Jesus, Solomon was the wisest man in history. And in the Book of Proverbs, he offers us his best advice on how to live successfully. He's giving us survival skills for life. The importance of Solomon is emphasized again in the next chapter of 1 Kings.
Vicki: It says, God gave Solomon wisdom and very great insight and a breadth of understanding as measureless as the sand on the seashore. And Solomon's wisdom was greater than the wisdom of all of the people of the east and greater than all of the wisdom of Egypt. He was wiser than anyone else, and his fame spread to all the surrounding nations.
Kent: I mean, when somebody writes a book or publishes a book, the publisher will often give a biography of the person. And we look, what are their credentials? Why should I pay attention to this author? Why are they an expert on this subject? This is quite a biography that God is painting of Solomon, isn't it?
Vicki: You know, it is. If somebody wrote a book today and people really believed that God said, this is the wisest person alive, and there will never be anyone wiser Ever, ever, ever again. That book would sell. And yet we have that book and nobody looks at it.
Kent: The wisest man who ever lived says, this is how to make wise choices. Yeah, you're right. How can we not study this book? In our morally ambiguous time? Has there ever been a book more needed or more relevant than the book of Proverbs? And the editor who put this book together begins by outlining its purpose in Proverbs, chapter one, verse one. How will this book help us? What is it for?
Nathan: It's for gaining wisdom and instruction. For understanding words of insight, for receiving instruction in prudent behavior, doing what is right and just and fair.
Kent: Wow. What will this book do? It will give us wisdom. The word wisdom there means the ability to make good decisions in difficult situations. Well, that'd be nice to have, wouldn't it?
Vicki: Yes.
Kent: When the pressure is on, when the stakes are high, when the choices are both good or both bad, how do you make a decision? Then? You need wisdom. Solomon says, yeah, I can give you that. I can also give you instruction. The word instruction means to admonish or to correct your natural inclinations. Sometimes our gut reaction is the wrong reaction. People say, yeah, I want to let my heart lead me. Yeah, but the heart is desperately wicked. Who can know it?
Nathan: Just follow your heart, Kent. Follow your heart.
Kent: Thank you for that. I appreciate that. These proverbs will correct that. They will say, no, what you feel in your gut is wrong. Don't do it. We need to be admonished. And Proverbs will do that. They will give us understanding words of insight. In other words, as we read through the proverbs, we will learn not only what we should do in a given situation, but why you should do it. The reasons behind the choice you should make. That's what they give us. The proverbs help us understand the rationale, the consequences of our decisions. And the results of applying Solomon's wisdom to your life are what? How did that verse end?
Nathan: Prudent behavior. Doing what is right and just and fair.
Kent: When the wisdom is applied to your life, we will not only know how to respond to a given situation, but it will shape all of our lives. We will be known as people who consistently do what is right, just and fair, in interactions with others. Boy, this is transformational. Those are big promises, aren't they?
Vicki: Yes, and I would love to be known as a person to have them say, she does what is right and just and fair.
Kent: Yeah. It will change our character. Why do we need Solomon's help? Why can't we just make godly decisions on our own.
Vicki: Well, to some extent we can if we're in dwelt with the Holy Spirit. But on our own we can't, because we are sinful, selfish people.
Kent: It's true that we've seen in our recent studies in Galatians that the fruit of the Spirit is transformational in our life. But we still need to make hard decisions as we go through life, decisions that will shape our life and determine our destiny. And the fact is, yes, we can have the Holy Spirit, and Christians do have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them. But still we are sinful. The sinful nature is not eradicated. Every part of our being, including our minds, has been affected and twisted by sin. And the consequences of bad choices are terrible and lifelong, even if they seem right at the time. Sin often disguises itself as the most appealing option. And proverbs pull back the veil and allow us to see the sin hidden behind the guise of attractiveness. Proverbs are to our minds, I think, what eyeglasses are to our vision. They reshape our understanding of reality, they allow us to see the world clearly as it really is, and they reveal the consequences of our choices in advance so that we can avoid the moral pothole ahead of us. So who can benefit from Solomon's wisdom? Well, this is also a pretty astounding statement. He says in verse four, everyone can.
Vicki: He says in verse four, giving prudence to those who are, simple, knowledge and discretion to the young.
Kent: Well, that makes sense. Kids are often stupid. They haven't learned life lessons yet. And he says, no, that we can. We can give prudence to those who are simple knowledge and discretion to the young. But also he expands his audience. In verse five, he says, let the.
Vicki: Wise listen and add to their learning, and let the discerning get guidance for understanding proverbs and parables, the sayings and riddles of the wise.
Kent: Here he's referring to the older and more mature person, whom generally we make good decisions but could make better moral choices. Is that not us? These proverbs are transformational and they're widely applicable to everyone. But in verse 7, the final verse of this introduction to the book of Proverbs, he drops the bomb.
Nathan: It says, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. But fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Kent: The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. What does that mean?
Nathan: Well, to fear the Lord literally means to be afraid of Him. Right? We've talked about it on this show before, where we hear all heard messages, where they say, oh, well, you know, it means like, respect and reverence, which is true, but it also means to be afraid. Not because he hates us or not because he's mean, but because he's holy and because of his holiness. Sin that dares to enter his presence is eradicated. We understand that he is stronger and more powerful and far greater than us. And so from that fear comes a healthy respect.
Kent: It's interesting that as I look through the Bible, people who have been confronted by God face to face, none of them say, oh, hi, how you doing, buddy?
Vicki: No, they fall on their faces terrified. Yes.
Nathan: They don't even need to see God. They see angels and they freak out.
Kent: I know.
Vicki: That's a good point.
Kent: Even angels. Yeah. It's interesting that God is often portrayed as fire. When that which is combustible comes close to fire, it burns, it is destroyed. So likewise, when sinful people enter the presence of God, if they come with sin in their life, they are destroyed. We need to fear the Lord because he cannot tolerate sin. And we are sinners. Yes, we are saved by grace, but, yes, we also are called to live a holy life. We are called to sanctification after justification. If we willfully walk into sin without restraint, well, there's hell to pay, and there is no escape from that. All sin in life has consequences. I think of Adam and Eve. Vicki, do you think Adam and Eve are in heaven?
Vicki: Oh, what a good question. Well, I always assumed they were.
Kent: Yeah, I think so, too. But did they ever get back into the garden?
Vicki: No. I know they didn't. God put an angel with a flashing sword in front of the gate.
Kent: No. Yeah, because there's consequences to sin. They made an unwise decision and there were lifetime consequences. How about Moses? Did Moses ever get into the promised land?
Vicki: No, he didn't.
Kent: Why not?
Vicki: Because he did the wrong thing. And God said, you're not getting in, babe. You've got 40 years you're dragging around, and then that's it for you.
Kent: Is Moses in heaven? Yes, sure he is. But there were lifetime consequences that he faced because of his sin. I think of David. What a guy, had everything going for him. And at the height of his power, what did he do?
Vicki: Sinned greatly. And yet God said, this is a man after my own heart.
Kent: And he was forgiven, right? He repented. Yes, Samuel is very clear. He repented, but his family disintegrated. His nation went down. Everything in his life went bad. There were consequences. Even though forgiven, there were consequences. Do you think he ever thought, man, I wish I could go back and make better choices. Do you think Moses ever wondered that? Do you think Adam and Eve ever wondered that?
Vicki: Oh, don't you know?
Kent: Well, this is the way to avoid those kind of mistakes, because that's what the Book of Proverbs is about. It gives us practical life advice of how to not make stupid mistakes that will affect us forever. And we do that because all of Proverbs are based on the fact that we need to fear the Lord. That is the beginning, the foundation of knowledge in C.S. lewis classic book, the lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, by the way, did you ever read that?
Nathan: Oh, yes, many, many times.
Kent: Well, you remember that the children enter a fantasy world through a wardrobe where the events and characters in this world called Narnia symbolize biblical stories. And Aslan, the great lion, represents Christ. And when the Beaver, the guide, talks to the children about Narnia, he mentions the lion. And the children ask, is he safe? And do you remember how the beaver replied?
Vicki: I do, because my dad loved this line. The Beaver says, of course not. But he's good.
Kent: He's not safe, but he is good. For God's people. The fear of the Lord should be just as real as our love for Him. Both feelings are to be rooted in our faith. And we are to believe his promises and love him, and we are to believe his threats and fear Him. And the Book of Proverbs shows us how to avoid some of those tragic mistakes, how to make good choices and steer clear of the inevitable consequences of bad decisions. This is arguably the most practical book in all of Scripture, and it can be and should be our guidebook for life. That's why I was struck by a quote written by James Dropper Jr. When he said the Book of Proverbs does not take us to church very often. Instead, it takes us to our business, our schools, our homes, and our personal relationships with others. The religion of our God is a way of life. It is something we live every day, not something we reserve for the sanctuary. The message of Christianity is intended to be worked out in our lives. The Word of God is a living truth that comes in our minds, hearts, to be seen, to be expressed in the way we live. The fact is, because of our sin, because of fear of God, we need the Book of Proverbs so we can be the salt and light that Jesus spoke of in the Sermon on the Mount. And you would be wise to choose to sit at Solomon's feet and learn how to live life. Not from Hollywood, Bollywood, Netflix, Facebook or TikTok, but from the wisest man who ever lived. Let's relearn how to live life. Let's explore the book of Proverbs together because they'll give us the survival skills we desperately need.
Brian: We'll do well to study Proverbs. After all, who can't use some wisdom? Solomon wrote Proverbs so Israel could learn wisdom, discipline, and understanding to live right, act justly, and act with fairness. So join us on CrossTalk for our new series. If you're young, you can benefit from the knowledge and discretion. If you're older, you can add to your learning and get guidance from the wise. I trust that today's discussion of God's Word has been helpful and served as an encouragement to not just be hearers of the Word, but doers. Together, let's bring God's Word to life, to our lives. This week, the crosstalk Podcast is a production of crosstalk Global, equipping biblical communicators so every culture hears God's voice. To find out more about this educational nonprofit organization, please visit www.crosstalk global. We're getting ready for crosstalk. Events in Southern California and Moldova this month help us train the next generation of biblical communicators. All you have to do is click donate in the show notes and make a donation of any size. You can also support this show by rating it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're enjoying it. Be sure to listen next Friday as we continue our journey through the Book of Proverbs. You won't want to miss it.
Nathan: Anything you wanted to cue us in on here?
Kent: I just noticed that in the very first sentence, according to the American Red cross, there are 11 should be. There are 11 survival skills that can survive.
Nathan: No, no. According to the American Red Cross, 11 survival skills could save your life.
Vicki: I like that better. It's tighter.
Kent: Okay.
Vicki: You're better than you know, Kent.
Nathan: Stop trying to correct yourself.
Vicki: That's right.
Kent: No, I never make mistakes. Except when I think I made a mistake.
Nathan: That's when you made the mistake.
Kent: And that's when I make a mistake is the thinking that I did and then that was a mistake.
Vicki: And then you need a colon at the end. You guys are filthy today. Anyway, go ahead.
Kent: I love it. My colon's just fine, thank you.
Vicki: Okay, go ahead.
Kent: Okay.
Nathan: According to the American Red, we need.
Kent: The Book of Proverbs so we can be the salt and light that Jesus spoke of in the Sermon on the Mount. And you would be wise to choose to sit at Solomon's feet and learn how to live life. Not from Hollywood, Bollywood, Netflix, Facebook, or TikTok, but from the wisest man who ever lived. Let's relearn how to live life. Let's explore the book of Proverbs together.
Nathan: One more time.
Kent: Angrier.
Vicki: Yeah.
Kent: No, no.
Vicki: Yeah, back off a little bit. Now. I feel like.
Kent: Okay, okay.
Vicki: I promise.
Kent: Okay, well, that's what I wanted you to do. Just shut up.
Nathan: Just growl.
Vicki: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have to growl at me?
Kent: Just.
Vicki: Just don't giggle and drink this cup.
Kent: Of rocks and then read it.
Vicki: No, it's called just. Just don't giggle in the middle of it. But I'd almost prefer that. No, that's good. Just don't giggle in the middle. Just read it, but don't. Okay, yeah, just try it one more time.