How do we contribute to the health of the Church?
Text: Matthew 18:1-14
Hosts:
J. Kent Edwards
Vicki Hitzges
Nathan Norman
Narrator: Brian French
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2025 CrossTalk Global
Kristin: Families are one of the greatest blessings God has given us in the early years. It is the parents who bear the most significant burden in the development of a healthy family. They are the ones who provide for their family's needs by giving their children housing, food, medicine, education and medical care. But as the years pass, children can and should begin to help their families. Young children can do simple chores like cleaning up their toys, setting the table, helping with dishes, and taking out the trash. Older children could help prepare meals, care for pets, do their laundry, and help with yard work and home repairs. As children mature, they should contribute to their families. What is true of physical families is true of the family of God. God is our heavenly Father who provides for us. As King David said in Psalm 23, he is our shepherd who provides green pastures and still waters to nourish us. He is the one who guides us and protects us through life and gives us the security of knowing that when our life is over, we will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. But that does not mean we should be passive. As we mature, we need to contribute to the health and growth of the family of God. How can we do that? Join Kent Edwards, Nathan Norman and Vicki Hitchkes as they Discover in Matthew 18:1 14 One of the most critical family responsibilities we have in serving our brothers and sisters in Christ. Welcome to crosstalk, a Christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible, but to take the next step beyond information into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life, into all our lives. I'm Kristin Norman. Today, Dr. Kent Edwards, Vicki Hitchkes and Nathan Norman continue their discussion through the Gospel of Matthew. If you have your Bible handy, turn to Matthew 18:1 14 as we join their discussion.
Kent: Nathan, Vicki, you both grew up in healthy families. What's your experience? In what ways did your parents want you to contribute?
Vicki: Oh, I immediately have an answer for that. Every Friday, Tori and I had to do chores, and Tori vacuumed and I cleaned bathrooms and dusted and I had something else to do. I can't remember. And I remember saying to my father, the only reason that you had us is so that we can clean your house.
Nathan: I can hear you saying that today. Actually, I did.
Vicki: And my father, father saying, well, I got the bad end of that bargain.
Kent: Oh, I can hear his voice right now.
Nathan: Beautiful. Yeah, well, yeah, kind of like Kristen said in the introduction. I remember as kids, as little kids, we would have little chores like clear the table after dinner or sweep the floor after dinner or at the end of the day. And then as we got older, we had more responsibilities. Like, I remember as my dad was renovating our farmhouse, he. He would pay us, like, I don't know, it was $5 an hour, which is a lot of money to take the shingles off the house. There's like, two or three layers of shingles off the house so he could put a vinyl siding on it. And so I can just remember spending hours pulling this stuff off with a crowbar, just happily. Right. Because I was contributing to the family. But, yeah, so there was always chores. We had, like, two acres of property that needed to be mowed. So every Friday afternoon or Saturday morning, I was out in the mower mowing it. But, yeah, we would. The three of us boys that my parents had, we would always be involved with some sort of, you know, meaningful menial labor.
Kent: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Similar for me. My dad was a mechanical engineer. He loved to do work on our vehicles. And as I got older, I got assigned more tasks. First change the oil and then, you know, get into the brakes or whatever needed to be done. He just assumed I would do that. We had a shed we built in the backyard, and that was my job, to work alongside of him. And, of course, Lon was always. It goes. That's part of being part of a family. Everyone pitches in, everybody helps. As we record this podcast. Christmas has just finished, and we had our kids and their wives and some extended family with us. We had people sleeping on air mattresses.
Vicki: And, oh, how fun.
Kent: It was bedlam and wonderful. Everyone pitched in. How do we get ready? How do we do the dishes? Who's going to set the table next? What are we doing? Anything we need from the store. That kind of contribution to family. Hey, that just is wonderful to see and enjoy. But Kristin mentioned earlier that the children of God have a responsibility to God's family. I mean, if we're brothers and sisters in Christ, we should be contributing to the family. What are some of the ways that the Bible says we are to do that? We can do it.
Vicki: Well, people have different gifts, and you see that. I have a friend who has a gift of mercy, and if you are hurting, she is there to encourage you. She doesn't want anybody to hurt. My mother was that way. She didn't want anybody to hurt. And she was there to encourage and pour your coffee and listen, I have friends who are evangelists, and, I mean, they can talk to anybody, and they. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, I have that gift, too. But, I mean, I'm thinking Of two people in particular. If I couldn't close a deal, I'd stick them in my car. And I think my gift is getting them evangelist because they could close the deal. It was just amazing to me. And I remember one gal that led a Bible study, and she was terrible at it. She shouldn't have been in that role. And there was somebody else in our Bible studies, big study, a couple hundred women, and we had a. This is a long time ago, but we had a garage sale for her. And we got there, and there was all this stuff piled in a parking lot. I had no idea what to do with it. I had to say, but this lady that ran the Bible study, her gift was organization. And she just walked in there and said, okay. And she just started. And I remember just my jaw dropped because I could have run that Bible study, but I had no idea how to organize that I could have done it. But nothing like her. People have different gifts, and they pitch in.
Nathan: I deeply appreciate the gift of administration. Paul mentions it, and I remember as a teenager, you know, they're like, what are your gifts? What are you good at? Right? I'm like, reading through them. Oh, that's cool. That sounds fun. You know, And I'd see administration. Boo. Lame. Stupid. Who wants that gift? Oh, that sounds fun.
Vicki: Until you need it.
Nathan: Be a penny pusher. But at this stage of life, you know, having worked for a number of organizations both within the church and outside of the church, I got to tell you, without administration, it is a nightmare. I can remember years ago, at my previous church, we had to do some sort of paperwork, and it had to kind of be done twice by two different individuals. So I told our financial administrator, I said, well, I'll do it. I'll do this end, and then you do it, and we'll see if our numbers match. So I'm not kidding. I spent all day on this thing. I checked and I double checked, and I was so proud of myself. I was like, I did a good job. This is a lot of work. And so I said, hey, I finished my end. Let me know when you're done. We'll compare notes. I'm not kidding. She comes in, and 15 minutes after coming into the office, she enters in my office, like, all right, let's check it. And I'm like, what do you mean? Did you work on it yesterday? No, I just did it right now. I'm like, are you kidding me? I've been working on this thing for five hours. But her. And so, like, you just said, vicki, I could do the job, but she was so gifted at it that she got it. And fortunately, everything matched up.
Vicki: She just got it and it worked.
Nathan: And it's such a blessing to have that skill set within the body of Christ.
Vicki: Yep.
Kent: But a hundred years ago, when I started dating my wife, there came a point in our relationship where I finally got invited over for Sunday dinner. And first time I did that, I was, you know, I'm not entirely sanctified. So I started to play. And it was pretty formal because all of a sudden this guy is here and what do we do? And we're sitting at the dining room table, and it was pretty formal. And Nola, my girlfriend, now wife, was serving, and I waited until she would sit down and then take a sip of water. And every time she sat down, I drained my glass. So I was just playing with her because her job was to fill the water glasses. And so whenever she sat down, she had to get up. But her mother saw it and she just said, o, oh, don't worry about him. He's just playing around. As things progressed, the relationship, obviously things became more and more informal, But I knew it entered the family one day when we were sitting down for a meal after church, and she took a dish rag and threw it at me, and I caught it in the air and she said, and you're doing dishes. I got a meeting. You're part of the family when you are pitching in, when you're doing your part. That's true in a human family. That's true with a spiritual family. And all those ways that we've mentioned are ways that we can contribute to God's family. But in Matthew 18, in the first part of that chapter, Jesus speaks of another way that we can. And regardless of gift, we must serve the family of God. Interesting how it starts in verse one.
Vicki: In Matthew 18, it says, @ that time, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, who then is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Kent: Now, that's an interesting question, isn't it? How would many people answer that question today?
Vicki: Who is the greatest in the church? No matter what a woman would think, a woman wouldn't lead with that. They're not thinking. It's just. It's true.
Kent: But who do people think are the heroes of the church? Yeah, who are the heroes of the church in many people's lives?
Nathan: Oh, you'd have like a Billy Graham. It's the person who's led the most people to Christ. People with the largest churches, people with the largest social media platforms, the most influential.
Vicki: Right yeah, in today's church. Yeah, yeah.
Kent: But look at the surprising answer Jesus gives to that person.
Nathan: People with their name on the front of a Bible. A study Bible.
Kent: Right, Cool.
Nathan: Yeah, study Bible. By the way, just end my life if that ever happens. Guys, he's call me out. No, yeah, but right, like, oh, the Nathan Norman study Bible. Look how. But his name is on the front cover. Woo. You know?
Kent: Yeah, but look at Jesus. Surprising answer to the question, who is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Vicki: Here's what Jesus said. It said in verse two, he called a little child to him and placed the child among them. And he said, truly, I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. And therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.
Kent: Hmm. Notice it's not the person who has necessarily the greatest visibility. The person who is truly humble. The person who, like a child, doesn't see themselves as the most important, but able to play a small part in the growth of the kingdom of God. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me. Jesus is saying that, that who is the greatest? Nobody and everybody, because we are all to view ourselves as children. He's implying here, I think, that God loves all his children equally. He has no favorites. In the same way that our families may include several children, all of whom have different personalities and attributes. A good parent loves all their children equally in the same way that God loves and values all his children equally. Nathan, was this high value opinion of children that Jesus expresses here, is this typical in the ancient world?
Nathan: No, the high value of children is more of a Christian innovation, if you will, in the modern era that has been brought into the world that we now take for granted. In the ancient world, children were not seen to that level of value, that we see them now as precious and to be cared for and to be protected and to be nurtured. They saw them as within Jewish culture, it wasn't quite as hard as in Greco Roman culture, but they were still seen more as well. They have potential, maybe, but they are certainly lesser people. They're of lesser value, they're of lesser importance. And if they struggle and strive and they become adults, then maybe they'll be as important as me one day. But they definitely put their own wants, needs and desires ahead of the, the needs of a child.
Kent: So this is countercultural.
Nathan: Absolutely, yeah. He's saying, oh, it's insulting, right? You have to become a little kid.
Kent: I mentioned the disciples, right? Yeah, mention the disciples. We've given up everything to follow Jesus.
Nathan: This kid is better than you.
Kent: Yeah, you're no better than anyone.
Nathan: You want to know who's the greatest? None of you idiots. It's this kid right here.
Kent: I love all my children equally. That's why Jesus says in verse 5, whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me to be part of the family. Means you value everyone who is a Christian, everyone who's part of the family. And if you do not view yourself with humble accuracy, just as a sinner saved by grace, if you do not value every member of God's family equally, Jesus says, you're insulting me. And then he moves to application.
Vicki: He says in verse six, if anyone causes one of these little ones, those who believe in me, to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble.
Kent: Wow. That's powerful. That's strong, isn't it?
Vicki: It sounds strong. What does it mean to cause people to stumble? To sin?
Nathan: Yeah. The Greek term is scandalizo, which is where we get scandalized from. Literally means cause to stumble or cause to sin. It is providing the situation to encourage people to sin or to force them into a situation that's going to cause them to sin. Especially if you're caught talking to children or about children, they're so impressionable, so vulnerable, that it's easy to put them in a situation where you sear their consciences and you get them to do evil things or you encourage them to do evil things through your lifestyle.
Kent: So what he's saying is that those who live a life that encourages other people to sin, that they're gonna get this necklace that's rather heavy, right? A millstone around the neck. By the way, what happens if you've got a millstone around the neck?
Vicki: Well, maybe it's because we just read about the sea, but I think of, like, Mafia. They're gonna throw you in with the fishes. You're gonna drown.
Kent: Yeah, yeah. You got cement shoes. This is not good. This is eternal consequences. And how does stumbling happen? Well, in fact, Jesus just reaffirms what you said, Nathan, in verses seven and a half and following, because he says stumbling will happen, but woe to the.
Vicki: Person through whom they come. If your hand or your foot. I know these verses. If your hand or your foot causes you to Stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
Kent: Hmm. So if in our life we tolerate sin, that will affect the family. Right. That's going to affect the family of God. Woe to that person. This principle that Jesus is saying here is not only true within the family of God, it's true within human families, isn't it? I mean, therapists frequently talk about the influence of a person's family of origin, that if there's dysfunction in a family, it affects the children. Right?
Nathan: Yeah. If you have a father with a gambling addiction, chances are the kid's gonna have a gambling addiction. If mom or dad has problems with alcohol or substance abuse, chances are the kids are going to experiment with those things at a younger age and then in turn have those problems. I can't remember the statistic off the top of my head, but if a parent commits suicide while a child is still a child, the likelihood that they will commit suicide is massively higher. It's just massively higher because people's actions have an incredible influence on their own children.
Kent: So the way we live our life affects the family of God in the local church. Isn't that what Jesus is saying?
Nathan: Sure does.
Kent: If we choose to sin, if we choose to willfully tolerate behavior that is contrary to God's will and God's character, then that will affect others, even the weakest among us. Others can be affected. We will be causing people to stumble. And what's interesting is the more authority a person has over others, the more significant the impact of our immoral behavior. Right. I mean, haven't we heard of court action taken because of what a trusted teacher may have done to their students or a doctor to their patients or a boss to their employees?
Nathan: Yep. Or counselor or psychologist or. Yeah, any of these. Trusted police officer.
Kent: Yeah. Jesus is saying that when we choose to sin, our sin not only affects us, but we are actually betraying the family of God. Our sin affects those close to us. Our sin that we choose to tolerate gives other people permission to sin. That becomes a stumbling block. It leads them to imitate the behavior that they see. And most vulnerable are the children that Jesus is talking about, the youngest in the faith. Interesting that our sin is not just our sin. It ripples into the lives of others. That's why he said, if anyone causes one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better to have a large millstone hung around their neck. How do we avoid. How do we avoid God's wrath for spiritually harming his children?
Nathan: You got to run in a zigzag pattern. That way the lightning bolts. Miss.
Kent: No, no. He says in verse eight, if your hand or foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. If your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. Have you heard those words before?
Nathan: Yes, and we've talked about them before. So it is interesting because this text, you could take it quite literally and literally cut off your hand and gouge out your eye, but that's not what Jesus is talking about. He talked about it in the Sermon on the Mount as we looked at it months ago now.
Kent: Yeah, when he said the Pharisees had an external righteousness, they had rules and so on. But Jesus was calling for an internal righteousness, right? It wasn't enough just not to commit adultery. It meant we had to deal with the root of the issue. We had to attack lust. And he says. He says, cut off your body parts if you have to, to make sure you get there, because if you don't, there will literally be hell to pay if we tolerate sin. But here, Jesus using exactly that and saying, if we don't deal with that sin, if we don't apply what he said in the Sermon on the Mount and develop internal righteousness, then we will not only affect our destiny, we'll affect others. And the Father is angry when people hurt his children. And he will respond if we choose to tolerate sin. What Jesus is saying here is we need to be ruthless with the sin in our life. We must do that not only for our own sake, for our own future, but for the sake of the family. We will hurt others. We'll cause. Be a stumbling block to them.
Nathan: A good image of this. I was at a pastor, a meeting with a bunch of pastors. I don't know, there's like 15 or so people in the room. And they were talking. And this one guy used this illustration and. And he used a bit of vulgarity, fairly harsh bit of vulgarity. And everyone kind of like, oh, they gasped for a second. But then as everyone's kind of talking about the same thing, I could. Not everyone just felt at liberty to start cursing and swearing in the room.
Kent: This is seriously.
Nathan: This is a passenger's group. And I'm like, what is going on now. I mean, you know, in the grand scheme of things, I'm like, oh, no, Am I so scandalized? And no, but, but I thought that was a good illustration or image of what, what's happening here. Right. The spiritual leader of the group decided to. To drop a swear word. And everyone was like, oh, oh, this is that kind of group. Okay, let's, you know, I'm part of the team. Let's, let's start dropping. Dropping some profane language. No, no one said anything profane. It was, it was cussing and vulgarity. But yeah, that's. It's surprising and it kind of reinforces to me. Yeah, you have to. Whoever you have influence over, you have to root out that sin in your own life. Otherwise it is going to influence them. Whether you're talking about your kids, whether you're talking about your small group at church. Even if you're a greeter. Right. In the way you're treating people at church, that is going to affect the entirety of the church and how people feel about your church.
Kent: Yeah, absolutely.
Nathan: There are people who should not be greeters, according to the Apostle Paul.
Kent: Yeah. Because their lifestyle didn't match their message. Right. Yeah. And would have a negative effect on others. The problem with this text is that this whole passage is that it means I have to take sin even more seriously than I may have considered in the past. Right. Because it doesn't only affect me. I need to ask myself, what sin am I tolerating? What sin, what behavior, what attitude do I know is anti scriptural is an offense to the God who loves me that I'm comfortable tolerating? Because those will affect the family, the sins that we commit. There will come a time when who we are is revealed, and it will be revealed. And when that sin becomes obvious, it will be devastating not only for us, but to our family, our biological family, as well as our spiritual family. When we choose to sin, when we choose sin over holiness, knowing the damage it will do to the most vulnerable. Jesus says there's going to be hell to pay. That scares me. I think Jesus is intending to put literally the fear of God into us. But it's especially true for leaders to keep this in mind, because remember the context in back of verse one.
Vicki: Well, that was when the disciples went to him and said, who then is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Kent: Yeah. Holiness is required of everyone, no question. But when the leaders of God's people choose to sin, because the disciples were going to be leaders of the church. And speaking to future leaders this is the answer he gives them. When the leaders choose to sin, the consequences are catastrophic and eternal for their congregations as well as for themselves. Because our visibility as leaders magnifies the impact of our sin on others. Haven't we seen that in the church? Well, our context is America, but haven't we seen this in American churches today? When the leaders fall, it impacts the church as well.
Vicki: It does. If you see, and we have seen sexual sin, if we've seen lies, if we've seen, and you see it in a leader, there's a way. It shouldn't be this way, but it tends to be. The congregants feel like, well, if he can do it, I can do it.
Kent: Yep.
Nathan: Yeah. Or they say, well, it's all garbage. Right. Like, all this is all a farce. None of this is true. God doesn't exist and Jesus is dead in the tomb. And they walk away.
Kent: Absolutely. I've read in some of the research done by Barna that one of the reasons people resist the gospel is because of the perceived hypocrisy within the church. They say one thing, but they live another. So their values are. Well, it's just hypocritical. And that's a stumbling block for them. We saw that. Didn't we see that with King David after he sexually assaulted Bathsheba? Look at the difference that sin made in the life. In his life. But the life of all the people as well.
Nathan: Well, all the people. And then the next story, he has his son Amnon assaults his own sister.
Kent: Yeah.
Nathan: And David doesn't do anything about it. Right. And like the fallout of it, his sin is just horrendous.
Kent: And the nation before, up until he committed that sin, was in a wonderful place. It unified the kingdom. Golden era. It was the golden era. I mean, great victories, wealth, stature in the world community. After that, his kingdom fell apart. He lost his throne. For a time, Israel suffered because of the sin of their leader. The fact is, as I look at this passage of scripture, it's obvious that we do not sin in a vacuum. The choices we make affect the destiny of others. And the most critical family responsibility we have at home in our biological family as well as in our spiritual family, the local church. The most critical family responsibility we need to have is holiness. And I think we should all remember Jesus warning his disciples.
Vicki: If your hand, foot or eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out, throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. Do not despise one of these little ones. Your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.
Kristin: It's easy and tempting to continue in sin, and we tend to want to rationalize doing that. But it's crucial we not do that because sin contaminates. Christ tells us that we are wise to stop sinning so we do not face eternal consequences by causing someone else to see us sin and then them sin themselves. That's especially important for Christians in leadership positions, pastors, parents, principals, and the like. God cares for every member of his flock, and we dare not cause any of them to stumble when they see our sin. I trust that today's discussion of God's Word has been helpful and served as an encouragement to not just be hearers of the Word, but doers. Together, let's bring God's Word to life, to our lives. This week, the crosstalk podcast is a production of crosstalk Global, equipping biblical communicators so every culture hears God's voice. To find out more about this educational nonprofit organization, please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org. in this month alone, we have cohorts in Salina, Kansas, Panama and India help us train the next generation of biblical communicators. All you have to do is click Donate in the show notes and make a donation of any size. You can also support this show by rating it on Apple Podcasts or wherever you find it. Be sure to listen next Friday as we continue our discussion of the Gospel of Matthew and discover how to go deeper in our relationship with God. You won't want to miss it.
Nathan: They are the ones who provide for their family's needs by giving their children housing, food, medicine, education and medical care. Do they care? No. Do they appreciate what you do? No. But as the years pass, children can and should begin to help their families. Did I tell you guys, like with my untold podcast years ago, episode 14? I don't know why the number is ingrained in my head, but my now friend, he wasn't a friend at the time, had submitted this story and it was called if it causes you to sin. And this guy is hearing these voices telling it, like reading this text and he goes to like the whole story. It's horrifying. It's the worst thing I've ever produced. He goes to Home Depot and finds a hand. Like he wanted to use one of the power tools but he can't because they're all locked up. So he uses a hand saw and chops off like Saws through his hand in Home Depot, following the scripture. Well, following the voices that are twisting the scriptures meeting in his head. So kind of ultimately it's horror. So ultimately it kind of leaves you in a place where the listener, not the character, unfortunately, but the listener understands that these voices in his head have twisted the scripture's meaning to get him to harm himself and to actually commit greater sin than not. I talked with Jess, the writer, and he said. I was like, where did you get this idea from? And he says, oh, I rifted from the headlines. And he sent me the news article where this actually happened in a Home Depot where a guy started. Actually, I think he got through his whole hand in a Home Depot. And he's like, why did that happen? And this scripture came to mind. So he said, okay, well, how would Satan try and twist these words and. And. And force someone who's unstable to. To go forward and do that? And so now Home Depot is ruined for me. Anytime I walk through the tool corral, I'm just like, episode 14, man. But of course, in my brilliant comedic timing afterwards when I do these stories, I narrate the stories, sound effects, music, and at the end, I kind of talk about it. And then we leave off with music. And right at the end of the episode, I said, ah, Home Depot, you can do it. We can help. I did not get a cease and desist from Home Depot. So, you know, that's good. No, but it's such a radical image that Jesus gives here. And the purpose is to pause and consider, what do I radically need to do to get rid of sin in my life?
Kent: Right?
Nathan: And I appreciate what you said here too, Kent, is the sin is you don't sit in a vacuum, right? Because we'll often think, oh, well, what I do in my bedroom doesn't really matter. It's like, well, yeah, you do. Ask any foster parent. Yeah, right. It does make a difference. Or ask any of the doctors who can be honest about it, about the pandemic or the epidemic, excuse me, of sexually transmitted diseases in America. It's not talked about, but go to CDC.gov and you look at the numbers, and it is horrifying. The only thing that stopped it was the little blip when we were all in lockdown during COVID But the STD rates are insane. And unfortunately, a lot of those STDs will lead to cancer, right? So you see cancer rates rising, so it doesn't happen in a vacuum. Or you say, well, I am not involving other people. I'm using Pornography. And it's like, okay, but there is more human slavery right now in the world than at any other time in history. There's more people enslaved. And not all of it, but a large portion of that is sexual slavery. And you know, unfortunately, the world we live in, I tell my kids, I'm like, if you view this, you are participating in slavery. You are encouraging slavery.
Vicki: Like, what, because the girls are shooting are slaves?
Nathan: Some of them are, Many of them are really. And in America. And there's no way that you could distinguish, oh, it's this, it's that, it's not, it's, you know, you can't. What is it? The. Gosh, what's the biggest pornography distributor? I think it is. They're now getting shut down in most Southern states because of verification laws. They have multiple multimillion dollar, if not billion dollar lawsuits. They should have criminal charges because they've allowed underage people to be uploaded into this thing. And even though police and the FBI have sent them cease and desist letters, take down letters, they persisted to leave things up for years or allowed them to be re uploaded after they were taken down. Yeah, it's sickening. It's absolutely despicable. And so we say, well, what we do on our own time. Does it. No, everything we do, all of our sins ultimately affect everybody else. But we're so American and so individualistic that we think, well, it's just me. No, it's not just you. Right. It's. It's everybody.