How can we know Jesus when we've never seen him?
Text: Matthew 8:23-9:8
Hosts:
J. Kent Edwards
Vicki Hitzges
Nathan Norman
Narrator: Brian French
The CrossTalk Podcast is a production of CrossTalk Global, equipping biblical communicators, so every culture hears God’s voice. To find out more, or to support the work of this ministry please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org
Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production
© 2024 CrossTalk Global
Contributors
Vicki Hitzges, Nathan Norman, Kent Edwards, Brian French
Keywords
Crosstalk, bible, modern bible, bible conversation, bible reading, discussion, crosstalk global, crosstalk podcast, bible application, matthew, gospel of matthew
Brian: How well do you know the people in your life? We all have neighbors, coworkers and relatives, but do we fully appreciate their abilities, character and aspirations? Probably not. Our knowledge of our neighbors may be limited to knowing their names and insights gained during casual conversations on trash day or when picking up the mail. We spend much more time with our coworkers, but our insights are largely limited to what we see in the workplace. What do we know about their home lives, hobbies, or relationships with their spouses and children and relatives? We may share the same ancestry, but often we only see our cousins, aunts and uncles on birthdays and holidays, and sometimes not even that. If we find it hard to get to know the people in our lives today, how can we get to know a man like Jesus who lived over 2000 years ago? And why should we commit our lives to someone we dont fully know? Matthew was one of Jesus closest disciples who saw Jesus character revealed firsthand and in many, many different situations over multiple years. Thats why in Matthew chapters eight and nine, Matthew used his experiences with Jesus to reveal who Jesus is and why he is worth giving up everything to follow. Join Vicky Hitzkas, Kent Edwards and Nathan Norman, who with Matthews help, will discover three life changing insights into the person of Jesus Christ. Welcome to Crosstalk, a christian podcast whose goal is for us to encourage each other to not only increase our knowledge of the Bible, but to take the next step beyond information into transformation. Our goal is to bring the Bible to life, into all our lives. I'm Brian French. Today, Doctor Kent Edwards, Vicki Hitzkis and Nathan Norman continue their discussion through the gospel of Matthew. And if you have a Bible handy, turn to Matthew, chapter eight, verse 23 to chapter nine, verse eight as we join their discussion.
Kent: Brian just said that many people have acquaintances, but very few people they know. Well, is that true? And if so, why?
Nathan: Oh yeah, I think it's absolutely true. I can remember reading something in a psychology book that said, very few adults have more than one or two lifelong friends. We have people come in and out of our lives all throughout our lives, but to maintain one or two is, is about as much as people do.
Kent: And why do you think that is?
Nathan: It's a lot of work to maintain those relationships.
Kent: Yeah, it's an investment, right?
Nathan: It absolutely is. And there's a hundred thousand things that vie for your attention if you move. And now it's hard to maintain the relationship over a long distance. If you get a different job, it's hard to spend time with that person. If you get married and you have kids. Now you have kids that you gotta manage and take care of and other issues that you have to deal with. And it's easy for those relationships to just kind of either become superficial or go by the wayside.
Kent: Yeah. Yeah. And reality is you can't invest in all people equally. It just cannot be done.
Nathan: There's not enough time and there's not enough emotional energy.
Kent: Sure. Maybe that's why some people move in the middle of nowhere, so they don't have to be overwhelmed because there's nobody there. Well, if we have to prioritize our time and energy to those who we really want to have a long term relationship, why would we invest so much time and energy in our relationship with Christ? Those of our listeners who were with us last week will remember that we saw teachers of the law come to Jesus and say, teacher, I will follow you wherever you go. Jesus gave a couple of harsh replies, didn't he? Or at least clear eyed replies.
Vicki: Well, he said in verse 20, foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the son of man has no place to lay his head.
Kent: Ooh. And to another disciple he said, oh.
Vicki: What do you think that meant? If you choose to follow me, you won't have a place to lay your head.
Kent: Jesus is saying, I have no place to lay my head. So if you follow me, you will make the same commitment to me that I am making to my father. And it may mean you have no place to lay your head. There's no guarantees. Are you willing to follow me even for a life of discomfort?
Vicki: Another disciple said to him, lord, for, oh, I remember this from last week. Another disciple said, lord, first let me go and bury my father. But Jesus told him, follow me and let the dead bury their own dead.
Kent: Yeah. Vicki, when your father died, did you go to the funeral?
Vicki: I made a video. I spoke, helped plan it. I went and got my mother. You bet I did.
Kent: Yeah, me too. Because our parents, you and I, have both been fortunate to have good, godly parents who have invested in our life and it would seem wrong not to be there. But here Jesus is saying, look, as great as those relationships are, that doesn't come close to the relationship I want to have with you. Even more important than your relationship with your parents is the one I want you to have with me. Why would anyone make a radical, permanent reorganization of their life's priorities? But yet Matthew made that commitment to Jesus. I mean, look at chapter nine, verse nine.
Vicki: It says as Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector's booth? Follow me. He told him. And Matthew got up and followed him.
Kent: Yeah. So what did Matthew give up?
Nathan: Everything. He gave up his business. He gave up his position with the roman government.
Kent: His money, his money, his family, because Jesus was wandering all over the place. And if he's following him, then he wouldn't be spending time with them. Right? This is a total reorganization of his life. And I got to say, why? Why would Matthew be willing to make such a deep commitment to the person of Jesus Christ? And maybe in the process, why? What should we. Well, we skipped a bit. There are three major events in the passage that I want us to look at today that help explain why Matthew and we can make an unusually devoted relationship with Christ. Begins in verse 23.
Nathan: It says, then Jesus got into the boat and his disciples followed him. Suddenly, a furious storm came up on the lake so that the waves swept over the boat, but Jesus was sleeping. The disciples woke him, saying, lord, save us. We're going to drown.
Vicki: I like this story. I like this story. I'm glad we're going to talk about this story.
Kent: Yeah, let's pause it right here because this is maximum tension. Right? Jesus told them to get in the boat and obedience to him. They're going across the lake, and look what broke out of. In fact, it's interesting to note that phrase. A furious storm came up, literally, in the Greek, uses the word mega and earthquake. There was a mega seaquake that happened. One of the things about an earthquake is basically, at least here in my experience in California, you don't know when one's coming. Suddenly it happens, and you are unprepared, and it could be a disaster if it was big enough. And that's what the disciples discovered, that they were in the midst of this obedience to Christ, and they thought they were going to drown. That's scary. Have you ever been in a boat on the water that you thought might go down?
Vicki: I have not, but I think that would be terrifying.
Nathan: I was on the Boardman river in a canoe with my wife and two young children, and we hit a submerged tree. Couldn't tell it was there, but the boat got stuck on it, and it jostled so quickly. I dropped my oar and grabbed the kids because, you know, they. They all had life preservers on, but the river is moving so fast, and they are so small. Right. You could see how they'd get into serious trouble. So my. My ore goes down, and, uh, and we're stuck on this thing. And the canoe we were borrowing from friends was really uneasy. And it was terrifying. I. For a moment, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm gonna lose my kids and. And their lives. It was. It was absolutely terrifying.
Kent: Yeah, it certainly is. It reminds me of a boat sinking just recently that has filled the news. Last Monday evening, as we record this, a billionaire was celebrating with his family and friends on his superyacht called the Bisayan, in a safe harbor off the south coast of Italy. What could go wrong? After all, it was a huge yacht, 181ft, or 56 meters long. The master was 237ft high, or 72 meters.
Vicki: Wow.
Kent: That's the second highest mast in the world, and it weighed over 543 tons. And its manufacturer said it's unsinkable. Of course, there's another boat we all remember that was also said to be unsinkable. But for this boat, in the middle of the night last Monday, a storm came out of nowhere so strong that in 14 minutes, the unsinkable mega yacht rolled on its side and sunk, killing the owner, his daughter and the four and four other passengers in the process. Experts think that a water spout or a water tornado developed during this unexpected thunderstorm, and it centered right down on that boat, so strong that it destroyed the ship. I can't imagine the terror on that boat, but I think the disciples could, because they were in a terrible storm. They thought they were going to die. And in their despair, they turned to Jesus for help. And what happened? What did he do? In verse 26, I said, Jesus got.
Vicki: Up, rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm. That's amazing. I mean, you know what? We hear these stories and we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. But imagine that. Imagine being in a hurricane or a. What did you call it?
Kent: Yeah, a mega earthquake.
Vicki: A mega earthquake. And he goes big calm, and it just gets quiet. Imagine that.
Kent: How did he calm the storm? What. What did he. How was he able to do that?
Vicki: He spoke just his words.
Kent: The power of just his words. So verse 27, we read. The men were amazed and asked, what question?
Vicki: What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him.
Kent: What did they realize right then? With just his words, he altered the physical reality of our world. Right? What would that remind them of?
Nathan: Genesis one. One. How God spoke the universe into being.
Kent: With just the power of his words.
Nathan: With just the power of his words.
Kent: What kind of man is this? You know what they discovered?
Vicki: He wasn't a man.
Kent: He wasn't just a man. And they saw that Matthew and the others that saw Jesus has supreme control over creation. He is the creator God. Matthew gives us a second event, begins in verse 28, when he arrived at.
Vicki: The other side in the region of Gadarenes. Is that right? Two demon possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way.
Kent: Whew. So now Jesus has crossed over into gentile territory, a place where satanic forces could hold sway. You can see this, that it's obviously a satanic area because all the pigs that we're going to hear will be introduced to later in the story. Pigs were considered unclean by the Jews, but obviously the local population didn't care. And Matthew, not only does he talk about pigs, but he also sets the.
Vicki: Setting where he said it was in a graveyard.
Kent: Ooh, spooky. A place that symbolized suffering and death. Looks like the beginning of a b rated horror movie, doesn't it?
Vicki: Sounds like it.
Kent: And then suddenly out of the tombs emerge two demon possessed menta men who were so totally controlled by satanic forces, people were afraid to go near them. Whew. The evil was palpable. So these men that come running out, what did they say to Jesus?
Vicki: Not what you'd expect.
Kent: Were they ready to fight?
Vicki: They said, what do you want with us, son of goddess? In fact, they shouted at, what do you want with us, son of God? Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?
Kent: In that statement, what do they acknowledge?
Vicki: That he was indeed the son of God.
Kent: Mm hmm. And there is an appointed time for what?
Vicki: For them to be tortured, judgment. And that he had power. It says a lot in there.
Kent: Yeah. They're coming to surrender. Like, what do you want?
Vicki: Don't hurt us. Don't hurt us.
Kent: I know we're going to all go to hell and be cast in the pit at some time, but I'd rather it not be today. I know we're going to lose this war, but rather than attacking Jesus, they are asking for permission to escape to the pigs.
Nathan: Now, a herd of many pigs was feeding at some distance from them. And the demons begged him, saying, if you cast us out, send us away into the herd of pigs. And he said to them, go. So they came out and went into the pigs. And behold, the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the waters.
Kent: Isn't that sad? I mean, here are these evil spirits inhabiting these two men. Come and surrender and say, look, just let us get away for a moment. Put us in the, the unclean pigs. Unclean pigs. And we want to kill them. We're going to go and drown them all. Evil. Evil. But what is Matthew trying to show us here? What do we learn about Jesus? Yes, he is Lord of creation. We saw that in the storm. What do we see here?
Nathan: He is powerful over the supernatural realm.
Kent: Yeah. Satan is a defeated foe. He knows that there is no one in the spiritual realm greater than Christ. He is dominant in the physical world. He is the Lord again in the spiritual world. And thirdly, there's another event starting in verse one of chapter nine.
Vicki: Jesus stepped into a boat. He crossed over to his own town, and some men brought to him a paralyzed man lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, take heart, son. Your sins are forgiven.
Kent: So the man that is being brought to Jesus is desperate. When I've talked to some medical doctors about this passage, they've pointed out that he has relatively recently suffered a traumatic injury.
Vicki: How do you know that?
Kent: Because they said if he was paralyzed, then he would develop bed sores and he would have died of bed sores. They didn't have penicillin. They didn't have ways to treat those sores when you're in bed. So it had to be a reasonably, had to be an accident that happened sooner rather than later. But he also knows that he is going to die. I say that because he's lying on a mat, which means that the spinal cord was broken very close to the brainstem. So he knew not only would he die of bedsores, but probably it was very hard for him to even breathe. The higher up on the spine that the break occurs, the more damage it occurs. And these men were coming to Jesus, and when he saw their faith, jesus said to the man, take heart. Your sins are forgiveness. What did this man want?
Vicki: He wanted healing.
Kent: He wanted forgiveness because he knew he was going to die.
Vicki: Do you think he knew he wanted forgiveness?
Kent: Yeah, I think this is like the equivalent of our roman catholic friends last rites. I know I'm going to die. I need to be right with God. So they come and they. And Jesus says, yes, I will do that. Take heart. Your sins are forgiven. But not everyone's happy. Verse three. What do we read at this?
Nathan: Some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, this fellow is blaspheming.
Kent: Why was he saying dirty words?
Nathan: No, because only God can forgive sins. And so by Jesus declaring that his sins are forgiven, he is declaring himself equal with God.
Kent: So Jesus, knowing their thoughts in verse four, said to them, why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? Which is easier to say your sins are forgiven or to say, get up and walk. Vicki, how would you answer that question?
Vicki: Well, it's easier to say your sins are forgiven because who's gonna know?
Kent: Good point. Good point. May not happen, but no one might know, at least not right away until this gentleman slipped into eternity.
Vicki: But to actually do it, to say your sins are forgiven is pretty amazing.
Kent: So I think the reason Jesus gave this question, which is easier, your sins are forgiven or get up and walk, is that they are both impossible. No man can forgive sins. We know that that's impossible. But no one, even today, can restore a severed spinal cord. When the spinal cord is severed, and this, as this man's, was, because he was paralyzed, then every part of the spinal cord that is disconnected from the brain dies. And not even the best surgeon, the greatest hospital in anywhere in the world, no one, there's no doctor anywhere who can regenerate a dead spinal cord. It cannot. It is dead. I remember years ago, an actor named Christopher Reeve, who played Superman in a bunch of movies, fell off a horse and broke his spine. His spinal cord was severed and he was famous and had money, but he never walked again. Because no one can regenerate a dead spinal cord. So what Jesus here is saying to these Pharisees, which is harder to regenerate a dead spinal cord or to regenerate a dead sin sick soul, but that you would know that who I am, he said, get up and walk. And what happened?
Nathan: Verse seven, it says, then the man got up and went home. When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe and they praised God.
Kent: Wow. So what Jesus was saying is, I know you can't see his heart being regenerated, but I can prove that I have the power of regeneration by doing what you can see and regenerating his dead spinal cords. These are the three scenes that Matthew gives us and I think help explain the radical commitment that he made in following Jesus, giving up everything to follow him. The question I face is, are you willing to follow Jesus even if you have no place to lay your head, even if it costs you the intimacy of a family? If anyone else asked you or I to make that kind of commitment, the answer would probably be no. But Jesus is not just a person. What Matthew saw firsthand was that Jesus is the creator God, the ruler of heaven and earth, who is so powerful that Satan, the enemy of our soul, flees from him. God not only rules the world, he rules the spiritual world as well. But the third thing that impressed Matthew was that he cared enough about people to come and save us from our sins. And how did Jesus respond? Remind us of what he did in verse nine.
Nathan: As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector's booth. Follow me, he told him. And Matthew got up and followed him.
Kent: Because the man he was following, the one he wanted to have a deep relationship with, is the creator God, the ruler of the spiritual world who loves us and him enough to come in person so that our sins can be forgiven. When we truly grasp the grandeur of Christ, we must follow Matthew's response to Jesus call because he is the pearl of great price and because of the price he paid for us. That's why Isaac Watts could create a hymn that resonates with our souls when.
Vicki: I survey the wondrous cross on which the prince of glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and poor contempt on all my pride were the whole realm of nature, mine that were a present far too small. Love so amazing, so divine, demands my soul, my life, my all.
Kent: Amen.
Brian: Like any relationship, it takes an investment of time to get to know Jesus. But it's worth it. He's the Lord of the universe, stronger than Satan and the savior of humanity. I trust that today's discussion of God's word has been helpful and served as an encouragement to not just be hearers of the word, but doers together. Let's bring God's word to life, to our lives. This week. The Crosstalk podcast is a production of Crosstalk global, equipping biblical communicators so every culture hears God's voice. To find out more about this educational, nonprofit organization, please visit www.crosstalkglobal.org. you can also support this show by rating it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're enjoying it. Be sure to listen next Friday as we continue our discussion of the gospel of Matthew. You won't want to miss it.
Vicki: You know, there's just very little about getting old that I would say that is so cool.
Nathan: The wisdom, the wisdom. The wisdom of yours. That's good.
Vicki: It's not worth all the other bad stuff.
Nathan: Make me a healthy idiot.
Vicki: A hot, healthy idiot.
Kent: Yeah.